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  #136  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:00 PM
Bradical
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Once bedded and the action is torqued to spec. I don't believe it will make any difference.

When looking at the design of the way the BMAG attachment is to the Boyd's Featherweight Stock, the front magazine mount/magazine clip (FMM), appeared to me, to also be acting as a bedding post which set the height of the action and barrel in the stock. Once the action screw is torqued, the FMM played an integral part of the lock, stock, barrel assembly. The only other place the action connected to the stock was by the rear of the trigger assembly with the second action screw.

I noticed that you also used a ring of tape on the barrel. I presume this was to set the barrel gap from the stock as you set the barrel/action/trigger (BAT) assembly into the stock and bedding material. Without the FFM in place, this would be the only way to prevent the BAT from squeezing to close to the stock. If this happened, once the FFM were in place it would keep the chamber area off of the bedding material, rendering it useless. However, with the FFM able to float, the bedding material will be supporting the barrel and action.

Last edited by Bradical; 07-30-2020 at 09:04 PM.
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  #137  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:14 PM
Mouzetrap

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All valid points. I guess I figured relying on a loose plastic clip for any type of consistency was a bad idea. This would also allow the torque of the action to vary with temperature as the plastic would move “creep” with heat.
Proof is in the groups I guess, and seeing as I don’t think it can get any worse, I was willing to try anything to make it better. Where I shoot is an hour drive one way, and with the travel for work, the kids and wife...I will just have to wait awhile before testing again.
The previous bedding job did help tremendously but it was consistent POI due to the action torque varying. I’m hoping this go around, that isn’t an issue.
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  #138  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:15 PM
Mouzetrap

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Edit, it was NOT consistent due to action torque
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  #139  
Old 08-14-2020, 08:58 PM
Mouzetrap

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Well I had the boys with me and there was a storm coming so I had to shoot about 30 rounds in 10min...lol needless to say the barrel was hot. Anyways, as bedded, terrible, like 3” groups. Could hear and feel a “hum” as the round went off in the receiver. I put the vibration dampener on near the end of the barrel. The hum went away and the groups got better. Made some aggressive adjustments and ended up with round 1” groups at 100 so I stopped. I need to retest with a cooler barrel as I know I can improve on it. I have learned that small adjustments in the dampener position make big changes to group size.
No pics yet as the bottom fell out as I was packing up. I did manage to get one of the targets and will take pics tomorrow. The others I left as I reused old shoot-n-c targets someone had left, so I left them as well.
It’s good enough for groundhogs now but I still want to make sure a cold barrel hits where I aim.
Ahhh the saga continues...
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  #140  
Old 09-05-2020, 09:19 AM
Mouzetrap

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Well the planets aligned today. I was off from work, the wife and kids went on a field trip and the weather was beautiful, hot but beautiful.
I spent most of the day shooting my WSM and doing load development for my AR15 and 10 as well as some pistol action in there for good fun.
I left no stone unturned with respect to the WSM. I tried Orings on the barrel against the Boyd’s stock and the factory stock and a whole host of things. By the grace of God, I think I figured out something but I have to figure out how to repeat it. I will give details later on testing.
A few highlights:
I fired about 150rds and there are about 450 reds on the gun since last cleaning.
Barrel cold vs really warm seems to be the same or close, it’s when it gets really hot and you cook a round that causes problems.
Only shooting 3 shot rounds, but check out the best one I’ve ever gotten with the rifle at 100yds. That’s the one I think I know how to recreate but ran out of time to do so.

You will also notice I am having a POI shift too with the same settings, I can’t explain that other than I am still doubting my scope.

Sorry for the confusing rambled rant. I will update later when I have more time.
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  #141  
Old 09-05-2020, 09:37 AM
Mouzetrap

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Here is another

And I was so excited about all this so I headed off to my groundhog hotspot after some honey-do’s...only for it to be a bust. It’s about a 140 acre field and the farmer hasn’t cut it yet, so I turned around and came back home.
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  #142  
Old 09-05-2020, 09:53 AM
jaia is online now
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M... ya' need to do a serious bench test with that rifle.
100 yards or more, 50 shots at 50 different aimpoints,
then sit down and analyze the results. Do it on a calm morning,
solid bench and fully supported set up to do the shooting.
One dot, one shot for the entire box, cold bore through warmed up.
Use a big sheet of cardboard so you have room to allow for trajectory spread.
I'd like to see y'er results.... I'm thinking it's the ammo, not y'er rifle.


Here's an example shot with a barrel block rig, 22wmr at 100 yards.
Every shot the crosshairs we're on the X. MV written next to the hole.



Warm up groups adusting the scope at the bottom.

Last edited by jaia; 09-05-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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  #143  
Old 09-05-2020, 01:47 PM
B23
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I think one of, if not, the most important thing to do is keep in mind this is a HUNTING cartridge, not a target cartridge like the 22LR where they are capable of amazing groups when used with TARGET grade ammo.

For me, I think one of the worst things you can do is shoot a lot of paper with a 17 WSM because though you may get some fantastic groups here and there you'll spend lots of time and energy, possibly making yourself go crazy, trying to replicate and make your 17 WSM shoot those few fantastic groups, all the time. The 17 WSM ammo just won't support all the time fantastic groups.

The 17 WSM is my favorite rimfire cartridge, not because it can shoot benchrest level groups but because it hits harder, at all distances, than any other rimfire on the market and if I can regularly hit sage rat size ground squirrels at distance and do so with more killing power than any other rimfire on the market, that's good enough for me.

If someone is looking for a precision shooting rimfire, the 17 WSM is not for you, but if you are looking for a hunting grade rimfire that will reach out further than all the others and deliver the most lethal blow and you're willing to give up some of the precision of a target grade 22LR, then you'll likely be happy with a 17 WSM.

I'm VERY interested in seeing what the RimX action is able to do with their ultra high end 17 WSM builds because then it will put it all on the 17 WSM ammo itself.
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  #144  
Old 09-05-2020, 07:12 PM
Mouzetrap

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Thanks for the replies. You’ve got almost a 200fps ES on that 22wmr...and I have one that is a hammer, so that tells me there is more to it than crappy ammo. I have chrono’d cheap 22lr and there is a lot of variance, as well as 17hmr, but they are accurate. I think all rimfire stinks due to how it has to be made.

I have hand loaded enough to tell you that extremely large ES don’t always equate to bad groups, if it’s on a node, then it softens the ES effect. I think that’s what’s going on with the 17wsm, the ammo is terrible like any other rim fire, but none of the rifles are on the right node based off of their design/barrel length, etc.

When I shot with the Orings, my groups were tiny, like the one I posted, but the POI was about 4” higher than normal, the problem was they weren’t consistent POI so I couldn’t trust that on a cold evening, the POI would be that same as a hot day...I imagine due to the durometer of the Orings changing with temperature.

With respect to hunting cartridge, this doesn’t do much good at 200yds with the vertical/horizontal variance. What you see below at 100yds would be a complete miss at 200yds, which was one of the reasons I bought this rifle.
BTW this is what I was talking about with barrel tuning, I could repeatedly get the groups to go from horizontal to vertical, which tells me my current tune is close to the right one as the groups are somewhat round.
I believe there is a right combo to make this as accurate as any other rim fire, we just have to figure it out.
Also, when I would see a high or a low, it wasn’t always when the FPS was high or low respectively.
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  #145  
Old 09-05-2020, 07:16 PM
Mouzetrap

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Last lastly, lol, I’m going to order some polymer sheet material to use instead of the Orings...I am hoping more surface area will reduce the POI shift I was seeing.
Last last lastly, I haven’t looked through the thread to give credit to the person, so forgive me, but there is a difference in where the forearm of the stock sits on the front bag. Thanks to whoever said this. It makes a huge difference. With a free floated barrel, I don’t understand why it makes a difference, but it does.
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  #146  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:09 AM
ohlongarm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by B23 View Post
I think one of, if not, the most important thing to do is keep in mind this is a HUNTING cartridge, not a target cartridge like the 22LR where they are capable of amazing groups when used with TARGET grade ammo.

For me, I think one of the worst things you can do is shoot a lot of paper with a 17 WSM because though you may get some fantastic groups here and there you'll spend lots of time and energy, possibly making yourself go crazy, trying to replicate and make your 17 WSM shoot those few fantastic groups, all the time. The 17 WSM ammo just won't support all the time fantastic groups.

The 17 WSM is my favorite rimfire cartridge, not because it can shoot benchrest level groups but because it hits harder, at all distances, than any other rimfire on the market and if I can regularly hit sage rat size ground squirrels at distance and do so with more killing power than any other rimfire on the market, that's good enough for me.

If someone is looking for a precision shooting rimfire, the 17 WSM is not for you, but if you are looking for a hunting grade rimfire that will reach out further than all the others and deliver the most lethal blow and you're willing to give up some of the precision of a target grade 22LR, then you'll likely be happy with a 17 WSM.

I'm VERY interested in seeing what the RimX action is able to do with their ultra high end 17 WSM builds because then it will put it all on the 17 WSM ammo itself.
Not me at $1100,it would have to shoot one hole at 200 yards,mines shoots a dime at 100 yards benched all day.
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  #147  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:25 AM
jaia is online now
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Support location is important when the forestock isn't rigid.
Any kind of flex combined with recoil loading creates a springboard effect.
That's why Tupperware stocks aren't all that useful for consistent trajectories.
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  #148  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:02 PM
RimShot1

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After "bedding" pencil barrel B-Mag! Before you couldn't make 2 shots touch! After, that's 12 shots, 1 flier! Probably shooter error!
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  #149  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:20 AM
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Al the Infidel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradical View Post
Once bedded and the action is torqued to spec. I don't believe it will make any difference.
.
It shouldn't but, never say never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RimShot1 View Post
After "bedding" pencil barrel B-Mag! Before you couldn't make 2 shots touch! After, that's 12 shots, 1 flier! Probably shooter error!
Or Winchester ammo.
Nice shooting.
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  #150  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:51 PM
Mouzetrap

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Woh, nice shooting! That at 100?
Ok so what I am doing wrong? Lol
Edit I mean ohlongarm I’m on my phone so it’s hard to look through the thread, any pics of groups and your setup? What’s been done again?

I could see where stock position matters with the factory stock but I’m using a bedded Boyd’s and there is zero barrel contact.
I put the small set screws back in, and could tell the barrel moved a little. Anxious to try it again as well as retest my good group setup.
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