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25 & 50 Yd Offhand Rifle Matches – Post all match scores & discussion here !

535K views 7K replies 177 participants last post by  Bob4BVM 
#1 · (Edited)
Please see Match Rules STICKY in Offhand Rifle Match forum for latest updates to Match Rules, Procedure, target Scoring, etc.
Thanks,
Bob
 
#298 ·
I'm really getting addicted to open sight shooting . I put together another CZ with Brno Aperture sights , this one a 455 Lux in Tacticool stock , I call it a Tactical Target .
Date : 05/06/13
Rifle : CZ455 Tactical Target
Ammo : Eley Sport & Aguila Subsonic
Weather : overcast ,cool mid 50's
Scores: 94-1X, 91-0X, 93-2X, 94-1X, 91-1X
Total : 463-4X
Getting a little better each trip . Kirby
 
#300 · (Edited)
I'll second that Kirby !
If you keep that up, you'll be giving Cowboy a run for his money :)

I too would like to hear what you think helped most. Did you actually shoot that round with the TWO types of ammo ?
Are there any things that stick out for you as really helping scores ?

This definitely puts you in the couple all-time top runners here in the 25Yd Offhand ! :bthumb:

Looking at the Irons Scoreboard history, i think this score would also get you the "Most Improved" trophy...

463-425 = 38 points improvement over your previous best in April ! Congratulations !!!
 
#302 ·
trying different things, some work, some don't

Very true words Kirby. I think the drop in the stock of the CZ Lux is a help. No question some excellent scores have been made with the American style stock, yet I have to think the European style stock is a help. Maybe more true with iron sights than with scopes.
 
#303 ·
Very true words Kirby. I think the drop in the stock of the CZ Lux is a help. No question some excellent scores have been made with the American style stock, yet I have to think the European style stock is a help. Maybe more true with iron sights than with scopes.
The European Lux style stock works great with factory open sights , but with aperture sights the line of sight is raised , just like with a scope and that's why the Boyds Tacticool stock works better . Kirby
 
#304 ·
First practice of the month

New to this section, but not the forum. Found this match section late last week and decided it was something I wanted to participate in. This is not my official score for the month, just my first attempt at 50 consecutive offhand shots.

Scoped, 5-6-13
SCORE: 469-8X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Style
GUN SETUP: __X_Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 93-2X, 95-3X, 94-0x, 93-2X, 94-1X
Perfect weather, dead calm 60-65 degrees, outdoor range. Using Weaver RV9 in Warne 7.3/22 mounts. Trigger adjusted down to 1 lb 9oz.
 
#305 · (Edited)
New to this section, but not the forum. Found this match section late last week and decided it was something I wanted to participate in. This is not my official score for the month, just my first attempt at 50 consecutive offhand shots.

Scoped, 5-6-13
SCORE: 469-8X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Style
GUN SETUP: __X_Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 93-2X, 95-3X, 94-0x, 93-2X, 94-1X
Perfect weather, dead calm 60-65 degrees, outdoor range. Using Weaver RV9 in Warne 7.3/22 mounts. Trigger adjusted down to 1 lb 9oz.
Welcome to the match GJ !
Good shooting. Always good to have another offhander join us. :bthumb:
If you'd like to have my printable 2 x A23 target, PM me and i'll email the PDF to you
Bob
 
#308 ·
Attempt with iron sights

Scoped, 5-7-13
SCORE: 453-8X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Lux
GUN SETUP: ___Scope __X_Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 92-2X, 90-4X, 86-0x, 93-1X, 92-1X
Perfect weather, Winds 0-5, 75-80 degrees, outdoor range. Using Tech sights, Trigger adjusted down to 2 lb 2oz.

This is a difficult target to shoot with a post front sight. This may just be the excuse I've been looking for to get a set of BRNO match sights.

BOB4BVM, thanks for the offer on the targets, but I've got that covered.
 
#309 ·
Scoped, 5-7-13
SCORE: 453-8X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Lux
GUN SETUP: ___Scope __X_Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 92-2X, 90-4X, 86-0x, 93-1X, 92-1X
Perfect weather, Winds 0-5, 75-80 degrees, outdoor range. Using Tech sights, Trigger adjusted down to 2 lb 2oz.

This is a difficult target to shoot with a post front sight. This may just be the excuse I've been looking for to get a set of BRNO match sights.

BOB4BVM, thanks for the offer on the targets, but I've got that covered.
Someone here is shooting the A23 with a WHITE 10-ring using tangent sights (post & notch), they said it was easier to see. I believe it. Don't remember who that was, but look thru recent posts, they may be able to share that tgt with you. Like the rules say, ANY version of the A9 / A23 dimensioned bull is ok for this match. If bull measure 0.89" 10-ring and 5.89" 5-ring, it is
probably NRA A9 std dim's .
 
#311 ·
A3/5R targets, aka, White Centers

Hi Bob, I asked American Target Company to make up the A23/5 targets with white centers. I promised him they would sell. They got made, and I bought a bunch, as did friends of mine. Some of the 50 yard BR iron sight shooters said the white centers made it a bit harder to shoot using peep sights. In some light conditions, I agree. Yet I have made it my practice to mount two targets on a backer, one white center & one all black. My scores over the past year plus show no statistical difference. And for the post front sight, they are much better, in my opinion. The designation is A23/5R and the company is the American Target Company, Denver, CO. (303) 733-0433. I just received 250 of white and 250 of black. Cost for 250 is $46. I may have bought the last ones in stock, but I am sure they will print up more. For those that have not seen them, the 10 & 9 ring are white.
 
#312 ·
Another practice session

5-11-13
SCORE: 469-5X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Varmint
GUN SETUP: _X__Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 94-1X, 91-0X, 93-1x, 93-0X, 98-3X (PB)
Very nice weather, Winds 5-10, 70-75 degrees, outdoor range. Using CZ 452 Varmint with Weaver Classic V-16 Fine crosshair dot, 12 oz trigger.

I have never shot offhand with this much magnification, but I can see why people do. It looks like a lot more wobble, but that is just an illusion. Shooting with less magnification doesn't make you wobble less, you just see less of it, which means you have less information available for deciding when to break the shot.

I like the slightly heavier weight of this rifle, but it doesn't fit as well as the Style I used previously. I have this rifle in a Boyd's Rimfire Hunter stock, but something with a higher comb would make things easier. Maybe I should just quit complaining and shoot?
 
#313 · (Edited)
5-11-13
SCORE: 469-5X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Varmint
GUN SETUP: _X__Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 94-1X, 91-0X, 93-1x, 93-0X, 98-3X (PB)
Very nice weather, Winds 5-10, 70-75 degrees, outdoor range. Using CZ 452 Varmint with Weaver Classic V-16 Fine crosshair dot, 12 oz trigger.

I have never shot offhand with this much magnification, but I can see why people do. It looks like a lot more wobble, but that is just an illusion. Shooting with less magnification doesn't make you wobble less, you just see less of it, which means you have less information available for deciding when to break the shot.

I like the slightly heavier weight of this rifle, but it doesn't fit as well as the Style I used previously. I have this rifle in a Boyd's Rimfire Hunter stock, but something with a higher comb would make things easier. Maybe I should just quit complaining and shoot?
Nice shooting.

I once shot with a Mississippian who said he shot a 40 power scope because "they don't make a 50 power". (of course, now one can be obtained).
I don't know how high the rings are you're using, but with a classic or American style stock the lowest rings possible are my choice for offhand work. It allows (for me) the best purchase on the shoulder of the buttstock while aligning head/eye/cheek.
 
#314 · (Edited)
2nd practice of the weekend

5-12-13
SCORE: 469-6X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Varmint
GUN SETUP: _X__Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 91-0X, 93-2X, 92-0, 97-4X, 96-0X
Very nice weather, No wind, 70-75 degrees, outdoor range. Using CZ 452 Varmint with Weaver Classic V-16 Fine crosshair dot, 12 oz trigger, forgot magazines at home, had to load each round single shot.

Shot this match with a scoped rifle three times this week, scored a 469 every time.

Thanks cowboy4, you've set a pretty high mark for us to chase.
 
#315 ·
Florida, 5/13/13

Remington 513T w/Redfield sights
No sling
Federal Auto Match
Indian County Range, Sebastian, Florida
May 13, 2013, 80 degrees, wind 10-15 mph.
A23/5 target with white centers
88-1x, 84-2x, 90-1x, 82-2x & 86-2x = 430-8x (Enter for the month please)
I also shot a 416-5x with this rifle.
and
Just for the fun of it, shot 50 shots with a Walther OSP & .22 shorts = 374/500
 
#316 · (Edited)
Offhand shot technique ideas

Hi all,
Been shooting a few sets this month with scope & irons.
Still seemed to be struggling a bit to even match past scores, so am spending some time trying different things.
My basic stance is the standard "bone support" one, but of late have been fighting a bad case of the wobbles. For what it's worth, thought i'd share some new-to-me changes that seem to be helping my wobble problem.
Still working this into a routine shot technique, but here is where i am at right now:
1-get feet in position, for NPOA
2-relax, take a few deep breaths
3-raise rifle to shoulder, butt low enough to have NPOA just above bull
4-settle into bone-support stance
5-rifle FLOATING on L hand. ( fully supported by L hand, but NOT gripped by fingers, gun just balanced on open, flat, palm. Web between 1st & 2nd fingers forward, against handstop. )
6-acquire target, relax a bit more as POA drops down over 10-ring
7-R hand has lightest possible contact on stock, just enough to control trigger
8-almost no cheek pressure on comb, Just enough to align eye to sights
9-exhale, relax to minimum wobble on POA
10-begin squeeze, continuing as long as POA stays around bull. If i can't get the shot off within 7-8 seconds, lower gun and start again at #2.
11-follow-thru by holding on tgt for 2 seconds after shot

When i can make myself follow this exactly, step by step i am getting some good results. 4 - 8 seems to be the magic combination for me.

What I am finding is that most of my "pulled shots" are happening because i try to force the shot past the point where i really need to take another breath, as in #10.
Sometimes I have to return to #2 three or four times on a shot, but it is worth it.
Have I been able to stick to this exactly for 50 shots in a row ? Well, not yet ! But when i do, it is really helping my scores. What i am seeing is that when i do it this way, my shots almost always fall inside the 9-ring. For single bulls, i have equalled my previous PRs several times and even broken it once this month, with a 97. Now my quest is to shoot that one perfect 100 bull ! :bthumb:
If i could repeat it 5 times, that would be ok too, fat chance of that !!!:D

YMMV, but hope this helps.
Bob
 
#317 ·
Looks like a solid plan to me . I find the hardest thing for me to do , is to abort the shot , and start over . I have to make myself let down and not force the shot . I'm also thinking of starting an exercise plan with some 5 pound dumbbells . Maybe a few curls every morning might help me hold that rifle a little steadier .
I have a CMP Rimfire Sporter match next weekend and need to practice that some this coming week . Don't know if get time to shoot a score , maybe I can incorporate a score in my practice . Kirby
 
#319 ·
I hear ya Kirby. Forcing the shot when it's past its time is the toughest thing " another second, i know i can do it" takes over ! What i am doing to kill that is to keep in mind that i am trying for a perfect 100, or a PR, on every bull. That means a ten on each shot, forces me to drop the gun rather than risk screwing up the round. Only takes one pulled shot to mess up the other 9 !

BTW, don't use dumbells, use the rifle for weight training ! :D

You are using bone support on that left arm, right ? Takes alot of the weight issue out of the equation. I know, my scoped 82G weighs over 11#...

Good luck at the CMP match.
 
#318 · (Edited)
Reply to Bob's "how to, "25 Yd. standing shot list"

Very well written Bob. The steps you describe are close to what I am doing.
Is the web between the thumb and finger at the balance point or fwd. or behind?
My CZ doesn't have a stop, so I have a piece of tape to mark my 0 position. Then trial and error toward the tightest vertical group. Presently it's still a work in progress.

I have set up my old Daisy 953 pellet rifle with the Gamo metal rear peep sight and globe front with post insert.(Daisy 753 style). It just makes 25 yards with a 5" drop with a 10 Meter 0. Rebuilt the awful trigger. Now nice @ 15 Oz. Getting a lot more practice in now and cheap. Also wife and dog have stopped complaining about the noise. 300 shots so far. Very accurate. 5 shots all in the 10 ring with no wind.

Thanks again,

Pointfocus (Gil)
PMOE
 
#320 ·
Very well written Bob. The steps you describe are close to what I am doing.
Is the web between the thumb and finger at the balance point or fwd. or behind?
My CZ doesn't have a stop, so I have a piece of tape to mark my 0 position. Then trial and error toward the tightest vertical group. Presently it's still a work in progress.

I have set up my old Daisy 953 pellet rifle with the Gamo metal rear peep sight and globe front with post insert.(Daisy 753 style). It just makes 25 yards with a 5" drop with a 10 Meter 0. Rebuilt the awful trigger. Now nice @ 12 Oz. Getting a lot more practice in now and cheap. Also wife and dog have stopped complaining about the noise. 300 shots so far. Very accurate. 5 shots all in the 10 ring with no wind.

Thanks again,

Pointfocus (Gil)
PMOE
Gil,
NOT the thumb... it's the web between the pointer & middle finger.. forestock rests over middle of palm, with that web area nestled up behind the handstop.
If you can rig some sort of handstop by even taping on a thin strip of wood or something and have a short piece or 1" dowel hanging down there, i think it would be worth a try. You could use that blue masking tape to fasten it and easily move it front/back to find the position that works for you. Really helps lock the gun in to bone support stance, and helps hold it at the right elevation once you get it right. Experiment. You are looking for the left hand position where the gun balances comfortably, almost floats, zeroed on the bull.

Cool on the airgun, wish i had a good one. My only 'practice ' consists of dryfire at a target hanging on the barn, 35 yds out my window.
 
#321 ·
Bob's forearm mod suggestion.

Thanks Bob for the correction. Made two prototypes today. More de-bugging and testing tomorrow. Attached a piece of 2X4, cut to size, drilled a hole, lathed a steel pin about 5/8 inch and attached it to the forearm with velcro. Now it's adjustable fore/aft plus transportable between the air rifle and CZ. Feels good.
More later.

Best wishes,
Pointfocus (Gil)
PMOE
 
#322 ·
Thanks Bob for the correction. Made two prototypes today. More de-bugging and testing tomorrow. Attached a piece of 2X4, cut to size, drilled a hole, lathed a steel pin about 5/8 inch and attached it to the forearm with velcro. Now it's adjustable fore/aft plus transportable between the air rifle and CZ. Feels good.
More later.

Best wishes,
Pointfocus (Gil)
PMOE
Sounds interesting. Yankee ingenuity will triumph ! :)
 
#323 ·
IRONS: 5/21/2013 <IRONS ENTRY>
SCORE: 440-2X
NAME: sando
LOCATION: Prado Shooting Park, So. Cal.
GUN: CZ452FS with Brno Match Sights
GUN SETUP: __Scope __x_Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: Eley Sport
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 88-0X, 88-1X, 89-0X, 86-1X, 89-0X = 440-2X
NOTES: I made two changes today. First, no sling. I leaned forward and into the rifle and braced my support arm firmly against my rib cage. Felt very comfortable. Secondly, instead of timing the figure-8 and trigger pull I rose the sight up from below and squeezed the trigger when the X-ring appeared centered. Both changes felt right - unfortunately my scores don't reflect much improvement. A step backwards in X's if anything...
 
#324 · (Edited)
Two more practice scores

Scoped Entry, 5-23-13
SCORE: 477-15X (PB)
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Varmint
GUN SETUP: _X__Scope ___Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 95-1X, 96-4X, 98-5x (PB), 97-5X, 91-0X
Very nice weather, Winds 5-10 gusting a little higher, 80 degrees, outdoor range. Using CZ 452 Varmint with Weaver Classic V-16 Fine crosshair dot, 12 oz trigger.

Irons Entry, 5-23-13
SCORE: 468-8X
NAME: gjwebb
LOCATION: SE Oklahoma
GUN: CZ 452 Lux
GUN SETUP: ___Scope __X_Iron sights ___Sling
AMMO: CCI SV
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 94-3X, 93-1X, 94-1x, 94-2X, 93-1X
Identical conditions as above. placed Lux barreled action in a CZ 452 Varmint stock in anticipation of the arrival of BRNO match sights, but they didn't come.

The comb on a Varmint stock is a little high for the tech sights, but still works ok. BRNO sights should be here tomorrow, so maybe I can get another irons score up this weekend. I've been reading on technique, including Bob4BVM's write up earlier in this thread. Used a more upright stance with my head straighter and less grip with my left hand. Really just made a fist with it, turned it palm up and laid the gun across it. Don't have to grip the rifle at all, it just sits there. Really fell apart on the last target of my scoped score, which I shot second. At this point I really only have about 70-80 good concentration shots per practice session, so shooting two scores in one day was really difficult.
 
#325 ·
for Match Entry Scores...

Got some hot shooting going on here this month !!!
Thanks for all the great progress reports.

Just a REMINDER... ALL OFFICIAL ENTRY SCORES SHOULD HAVE THIS AT TOP OF YOUR POST:

<IRONS ENTRY> or <SCOPED ENTRY>

If you find you want to use an already-posted score, no need to re-enter it, just go back and edit your post, adding <IRONS ENTRY> or <SCOPED ENTRY> at the top.
Thanks guys.
Bob
 
#326 ·
<IRONS ENTRY> 5/23/13
SCORE: 457-9X
NAME: Jack-M1A
LOCATION: Quebec
GUN: CZ452 Trainer BRNO peep sight and front globe
SIGHTS: ___Scope __X_Iron sights_____sling
AMMO: American Eagle 5022
INDIV TGTS SCORES: : 90-1x, 87-1x, 94-2x, 91-3x, 85-2x
NOTES: temp 65F cloudy

<SCOPED ENTRY> 5/16/13
SCORE: 469-9X
NAME: Jack-M1A
LOCATION: Quebec
GUN: CZ452 Varmint bushnell 6x24-40@12x -- trigger @ 2.5# no sling
SIGHTS: _X__Scope ___Iron sights ____sling
AMMO: Federal 510
INDIV TGTS SCORES: : 92-1x, 91-4x, 94-1x, 97-2x, 95-1x
NOTES: temp 60F sunny

Bob you have a large crowd this month :bthumb:

Jack
 
#327 · (Edited)




<SCOPED ENTRY> 5/23
SCORE: 445/4x
NAME: YoSam22
LOCATION: IL
GUN: Marlin 70
GUN SETUP: Weaver 4x old rimfire scope, GI sling
AMMO: Eley Sport
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 89/0, 90/3, 93/1, 88/0, 85/0
72º and breezy

This is the gun I rebarrelled after finding out last month it had a ringed barrel. It now shoots much better off a rest. But I don't shoot it any better offhand than before. :)

It's so darn light weight. I am going to have to try my Kimber. Also, I usually shoot about 3 shots without relaxing and starting over. The semi-auto allows me to do that and I doubt it is helpful.
 
#328 ·
<SCOPED ENTRY> 5/23
SCORE: 445/4x
NAME: YoSam22
LOCATION: IL
GUN: Marlin 70
GUN SETUP: Weaver 4x old rimfire scope, GI sling
AMMO: Eley Sport
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 89/0, 90/3, 93/1, 88/0, 85/0
72º and breezy

This is the gun I rebarrelled after finding out last month it had a ringed barrel. It now shoots much better off a rest. But I don't shoot it any better offhand than before. :)

It's so darn light weight. I am going to have to try my Kimber. Also, I usually shoot about 3 shots without relaxing and starting over. The semi-auto allows me to do that and I doubt it is helpful.
Hey YoSam, that's not so bad . You should see my attempts this month ! Shot a 415 scoped yesterday, had several zero's in that set ! :eek:

You have a Kimber ? Get that thing out here !!;)
 
#329 · (Edited)
Great to see so many shooters out for May.
Been a crazy month for me, have tried to shoot more often after work, but scores all over the place this month. Trying some new things. But mostly i need to get more focused and relaxed at the line. Here is an example of my WORST for the month, after shooting three targets in the 90's, i did this on #4 and #5:

"How to turn a 95 into a 75 in just two pulls of the trigger..." PAINFUL ! :D

 
#330 ·
<SCOPED ENTRY> 5/16/13
SCORE: 465-7X
NAME: Bob4BVM
LOCATION: Oregon
GUN: Kimber 82G #1
SIGHTS: _X_Scope,_18x Barska_
AMMO: Fed. 510
INDIV TGTS SCORES: 94-1x, 88-1x, 94-4x, 96-1x, 93-0x
NOTES:

<IRONS ENTRY> 5/13/13
SCORE: 423-3X
NAME: Bob4BVM
LOCATION: Oregon
GUN: Kimber 82G #2
SIGHTS: __X_Iron sights_(4.0mm front ring)
AMMO: Fed. 510
INDIV TGTS SCORES: : 88-0x, 82-0x, 86-0x, 79-2x, 85-1x
NOTES:
 
#331 ·
So far this month i count only 7 DECLARED match entries. There are some "progress reports that do not say "ENTRY", so not counting those.
You can go back and edit posts to call it an entry if you want.
Match closes midnight tomorrow.
I'll update scoreboard morning of 6/1 so if you shot a match score during May, please get it in by then.
Thanks
Bob
 
#332 ·
Monthly Entry

I have changed my last set of practice scores (post 324) to entries, but I was unable to edit the subject line to reflect this. I did put 'Irons Entry' and 'Scoped Entry' in the body of post however.

I had hoped to get some more scores in this month, but the weather has been a little rocky in Oklahoma lately. Maybe June will be better.
 
#333 ·
I have changed my last set of practice scores (post 324) to entries, but I was unable to edit the subject line to reflect this. I did put 'Irons Entry' and 'Scoped Entry' in the body of post however.

I had hoped to get some more scores in this month, but the weather has been a little rocky in Oklahoma lately. Maybe June will be better.
Got it. Thank you !
 
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