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Old 04-08-2021, 11:10 AM
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Accuracy vs knock down power



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It's a bit rainy here today so I have time to ponder all things rimfire. Considering the .22 through the .22 mag to the .17 HMR and including the .17 WSM, at what distance does knock down power become more important than pinpoint accuracy?

Assume we're shooting at 50 yards to a maximum of 200 yards. I realize that critters vary in size and toughness, but is a bullet placed exactly where aimed going to equalize the effects of a more powerful cartridge slightly off target?

The reason I ask is this: I have CZ .22's that can be dialed in to give MOA groups at 100 yds. The same with a Marlin Varmint XT17. On the other hand, I can get 1.25" groups at 100 yds. with 30 gr. .22 WMR and about the same with my Savage HB Bmag. Now, due to the wildly varying velocities of the .17 WSM, as distance increases the groups do likewise though the knock down power remains out to 200+.

I've never been much for spray and pray, so where do they all overlap? I want to figure out if my new Bmag is warranted over the .17 HMR or even the .22 mag.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alum572 View Post
at what distance does knock down power become more important than pinpoint accuracy?
I would contend the answer to that question is as follows:

Only at such a range of distances wherin the more precise cartridge/gun/sighting/shooter system lacks the terminal performance to cleanly kill the target with a well-placed shot, but the less precise cartridge/gun/sighting/shooter system still retains both the terminal performance to cleanly kill the target and the minimum degree of precision to deliver the bullet where it needs to go.

If all your options will get the job done cleanly, I'd go with whatever seems like it will provide the most enjoyment on that day. Variety is the spice of life and such.

Additionally, if you find yourself wondering if you "need" to purchase a new rifle, the answer is "yes"
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:26 PM
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LOL YOU THINK I NEED ANOTHER RIFLE?
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:43 PM
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I've shot in many 100/200yd matches shooting wilth many shooters all shooting match grade rifles, and none of them could/would guarantee a 2 inch group at that distance.

That would be the minimum group size for me to shoot any of the calibers you've mentioned.
You of course never want to wound an animal, and the likelihood of doing that 200yds with any of them is to great for me.

So none of them at 200yds.

Can't give you and absolute maximum range, but for me and my rifles it would be 100yds for a .22, and out too 150yds for a 17hmr.

I've only observed a few 17WSM's being shot at 100yds, and was not impressed with its accuracy.
That's too small of a sample to give you an answer on that one.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 04-08-2021 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:01 PM
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Accuracy trumps "knockdown power".
One can't knock down what one can't hit.
And willful maiming is distasteful.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:06 PM
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Accuracy trumps "knockdown power".
One can't knock down what one can't hit.
And willful maiming is distasteful.
Beat me to it.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:03 PM
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Accuracy trumps "knockdown power".
One can't knock down what one can't hit.
And willful maiming is distasteful.
Kinda what I have experienced. I have been shooting at 135 yards as itís the maximum distance at the rimfire bay where I shoot. I have found the 17 HMR is more consistently accurate than the 17 WSM. Plus, critters get tiny for me past 150. No desire to not hit vitals.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:03 PM
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Accuracy at 100 yards.

I have been to a lot of rimfire 100 yard egg shoot matches. A few people will go 15 for 15, but the majority of us will miss an egg or two. Eggs are a bit over one inch. And the shooter has plenty of time sitting at a bench with his best front and rear rests to get dialed in and take careful aimed shots. The .17 HMR generally will do better than the .22 as it is a bit less wind sensitive.

Now switch over to real life hunting. It is very rare you will be in as stable a shooting position with time to consider your shot. From a comfortable sitting position you may be able to keep your shots inside two inches if everything else in the universe is going your way, like knowing the distance/bullet drop etc. Zero at 100 yards and the critter is at 75 you are about 3 inches high and if the critter is at 125 yards you are about 6 inches low.

The way some if us write about our shooting prowess defies credibility. And it is damaging to the new shooters coming into the sport as if they believe these writings, they may not continue all while feeling bad about themselves. Let us try and be honest please.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojaileveraction View Post
Accuracy trumps "knockdown power".
One can't knock down what one can't hit.
And willful maiming is distasteful.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:00 PM
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A this time of year here in MN, 13 lined ground squirrels (gophers) are the main targets. They are about 7 inches high when standing up not inc. the tail. They make for a challenging shot at anything over 50 yards. If you shoot one, stay around as they tend to be cannibals and will eat others for lunch. A whistle will cause them to stand up.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:51 AM
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Another vote here for "accuracy trumps knockdown power".

I hunt with subsonic hollowpoints, whatever flavor is most accurate in the rifle I happen to be shooting. To improve knockdown, I use a homemade tool to slightly open up the HP cavity.

For example, CCI Segmented HP Subsonics are very accurate in my TOZ-78, and by opening up the nose just a little bit, they really anchor gray squirrels.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:05 AM
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Having sighted my BMag in .5 high at 50 yards I sent 5 rounds down range to 150 yards at a 100 yard KYL rack set up at the Club, going from largest down all 5 shots were hits holding top edge. I was pretty impressed by a rifle I had declared unworthy in my first version. I'm guessing Ground Hogs will be in mortal danger out to 250 or so yards once I work out my hold overs.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:09 AM
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LOL YOU THINK I NEED ANOTHER RIFLE?
Standard answer for all questions rimfire.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by David Valdina View Post
I have been to a lot of rimfire 100 yard egg shoot matches. A few people will go 15 for 15, but the majority of us will miss an egg or two. Eggs are a bit over one inch. And the shooter has plenty of time sitting at a bench with his best front and rear rests to get dialed in and take careful aimed shots. The .17 HMR generally will do better than the .22 as it is a bit less wind sensitive.

Now switch over to real life hunting. It is very rare you will be in as stable a shooting position with time to consider your shot. From a comfortable sitting position you may be able to keep your shots inside two inches if everything else in the universe is going your way, like knowing the distance/bullet drop etc. Zero at 100 yards and the critter is at 75 you are about 3 inches high and if the critter is at 125 yards you are about 6 inches low.

The way some if us write about our shooting prowess defies credibility. And it is damaging to the new shooters coming into the sport as if they believe these writings, they may not continue all while feeling bad about themselves. Let us try and be honest please.
Well said. I cringe when I hear of people taking 100 yard shots at squirrels. I limit my shots to 25 yards or less rested on a tree or something else.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:22 AM
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Non hunter question: Sounds like you are shooting at rather small critters. Would lots of knock down power in the vital areas spoils a lot of the meat? Also, if there are egg shooting contests, and people het the egg, is a head shot the logical choice.

BTW I have eaten fish that I have caught, quite when they started [putting defoliant into the water ways to kill the hyacinth out here. It was deemed "safe". I have found over the years a healthy distrust of gov't is warranted. I wouldn't want to kill anything I wasn't going to eat or that was a real pest. Also, have only a few times eaten wild game (venison sausage, really good, and wild turkey, way to gamey for my pallet.
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