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Old 06-27-2019, 04:06 PM
flangster

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Henry Accuacy Tips? - Disappointing First Day Out



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I recently bought a Henry H001T in .22 LR with an octagon barrel. I cleaned it and tested it for function at 15 yards and everything seemed ducky.

I then mounted a DiP rail on it and a Weaver Classic 4-16x42 scope in Signature Zee rings to see what the rifle could do at 50 yards. Now I know it is not a benchrest rifle, and I don't anticipate shooting off of a rest all that often. But I wanted to take some of my offhand shake and shimmy out of the equation to see what the rifle's basic potential is, so I rested the forearm on a Rock BR and the rear on a Protektor with bunny ears and had at it with SK Magazine, Automatch, and Aguila SE. That set-up allows me to work the rifle's lever without removing it from the rest, even if it is a bit of a cludge.

Now I know that none of those pills qualify as match ammo, But no rifle I own will do worse than a 1-inch or 2-inch group at 50 yards off a rest with any of this ammunition -- or any ammunition come to think of it. No "group" I shot was under three inches, and a lot of that was vertical stringing. Granted, these were 15 shot groups, but I was quite surprised that the rifle wouldn't even hold minute of squirrel-head at 50 yards. There was simply no way to predict where the next shot was going to hit.

So something is amiss. The crown seems fine. I will swap out the scope and rail for a Burris Timberline 4-14x32 and some rings that will clamp directly to the receiver rail to see whether it is a scope issue. But I wanted to check in with the Henry subforum here and see whether a) these symptoms sound familiar to any of you, b) there are any known issues with this design that might explain what I am seeing on target, and c) what a reasonable accuracy expectation is at 50 yards with this rifle. I was hoping for "no worse than my CZ's" in a nice-handling off-hand lever-rifle package. The rifle sure is pretty, but it won't be around long if I can't learn to shoot it better than that.

All advice, suggestions, downright mockery, and commiseration welcomed . . . have at it.
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:27 PM
pop
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accuracy

Seams how you were doing good with open sights I would be checking the rail and scope system for tightness and rings. Is the scope new or one you had around. How did you test it? Bench or improvised front support? Was their some kind of cushion under the front for arm? Just trying to help.
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:28 PM
pop
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Try 3 or 5 shot groups.
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:40 PM
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I'd test some different ammo. My wife's Frontier Long Barrel shoots consistently sub-2" 100 yard groups withe my current lots of CCI SV and Norma Match. I also have some ammo that won't group well in any gun I have.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:21 PM
Pete44ru
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.

You can do much better if you don't rest the rifle directly on the rests, for several reasons.

Anytime any portion of a rifle with a two-piece stock (like the Henry Frontier) touches anything except a part of the shooters body, accuracy will suffer, as ( no matter how hard it's held) the forend/barrel will move away from a solid rest (microscopically, but enough to make it difficult to obtain the best accuracy).

Likewise, if the toe of the stock happens to touch the benchtop or rear rest, the microscopic movement of the forward portion of the rifle will be magnified.


I've gotten the best results, in this way:

* Grasp the forend tightly with the non-trigger hand, then rest the back of that hand on the front rest - all the while exerting force downward (pulling) and backward towards the shooting shoulder.

* Grasp the wrist of the stock tightly with the trigger hand, also pulling the butt straight back towards the shoulder - all the while leaving the trigger finger free to pull the trigger.




.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
had at it with SK Magazine, Automatch, and Aguila SE.
I found your problem.

SK magazine can be pretty good but sometimes it's not. Aquila SE doesn't shoot well in anything I own, and my Federal Auto Match is hideously bad - 4-6" groups at 50 yards - but it does usually go bang every time....

I would add Minimags and CCI Standard as well as something along the lines of Eley club...
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:57 PM
92lowrider
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Henry H001T, sure hope that "T" doesn't stand for Target.
Is this one of those guns that has sheet metal plates covering the die cast action?
If so is the scope mounted to the cover plates? Could the cover plates be moving?

Just some random thoughts, I may be totally off target here, hope you get it straightened out.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:09 PM
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I hear y'all -- and will try everything you suggest tomorrow. That will include:

1) adjusted hold on a sandbag rather than a BR front rest
2) three different kinds of ammo: CCI-SV, Federal UM, and a player to be named (I do have some Eley club kicking around)
3) a different scope
4) the original iron sights.
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:24 AM
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I don't shoot for groups with my H001T, H001TLB or Winny Model 94 except to sight them in for a different type or batch of ammo. I have noticed that accuracy suffers on all three if I try to rest the fore end directly on anything. As Pete pointed out, a two piece stock is prone to allowing the barrel to deflect, which helps to explain the popularity of free-floating fore ends attached to the receiver of precision AR platform rifles.

If I do need to rest a lever action rifle on something (to take as much of me out of the equation as possible) I'll do so on the forward end of the receiver just in front of the lever. This can be a little tricky to get use to and it's unlikely you'll shoot bug holes with this technique, but it should get you to reasonable and repeatable results. Also, when shooting offhand I rest the front of the receiver on my forward hand and brace that elbow in tight to my body to 1) avoid the barrel deflection from holding the wooden fore end, and 2) mitigate some of the "wobble" caused by caffeine and other issues with my technique.

Edit to add that I rarely shoot anything but CCI Blazer 40 grain through my Henry rifles and on most days can hit a two inch spinner on the 50 yard berm at a 90%+ rate with my elbows rested on a bench, using the hold I described above. I use a Marbles tang sight in the rear and a Lyman globe up front.

Last edited by TrblShtr; 06-28-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:01 AM
flangster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrblShtr View Post
Edit to add that I rarely shoot anything but CCI Blazer 40 grain through my Henry rifles and on most days can hit a two inch spinner on the 50 yard berm at a 90%+ rate with my elbows rested on a bench, using the hold I described above. I use a Marbles tang sight in the rear and a Lyman globe up front.
That's good to know. Ironically, I plan on shooting the Henry off-hand and with iron sights. But I want to nail down what the rifle will do first before adding my own errors into the aiming system. And my technique is far from perfect. If I could hold less than 2 inches at 50 yards from a semi-supported position, I'd be happy enough. Half-inch would be better, of course. But it seems to me that you've got to know what your "cone of fire" is before you start having fun at 50 yards.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:27 AM
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I have had two of the OP's rifle, now have one.

I have scoped and iron sights, both factory and Skinner. Shot at 25 and 50 yards. Do your rings fit onto the Henry rail itself without a DIP rail?

I would take no more than five shot groups and buy 100 rounds of the best ammo that you can afford.
Clean the rifle thoroughly and take 10-15 foulers. Then shoot your groups. Make sure the scope (or two of them) is appropriately torqued on the rings and on the rail itself. Do NOT lock it down on the front rest because of the two piece stock. Better yet, use sandbags in the front.

If the above do not close your groups considerably, call Henry and ask then for a label to ship back to them for a look see. All in all, please remember this is not a target rifle and note that CZ quality control says 1" @ 50 yards is their cutoff. Henry, though, might say the same 2 MOA is what their QC says is ok.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill View Post
I have had two of the OP's rifle, now have one.

I have scoped and iron sights, both factory and Skinner. Shot at 25 and 50 yards. Do your rings fit onto the Henry rail itself without a DIP rail?

I would take no more than five shot groups and buy 100 rounds of the best ammo that you can afford.
Clean the rifle thoroughly and take 10-15 foulers. Then shoot your groups. Make sure the scope (or two of them) is appropriately torqued on the rings and on the rail itself. Do NOT lock it down on the front rest because of the two piece stock. Better yet, use sandbags in the front.

If the above do not close your groups considerably, call Henry and ask then for a label to ship back to them for a look see. All in all, please remember this is not a target rifle and note that CZ quality control says 1" @ 50 yards is their cutoff. Henry, though, might say the same 2 MOA is what their QC says is ok.

All good suggestions; however, Henry is not your normal gun mfg. They want YOU to be happy and from my dealings with them, they will do just that.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:47 PM
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Isn't 2 MOA is CZ's internal standard for its centerfire rifles? In any case, Henry's legendary customer service is part of what went into the purchase decision for me. But before I communicate with them, I want to make sure I have taken every reasonable step on my part to make sure that I understand what the platform will do and what it won't. This is my first lever-action rifle, and already the comments of those here who are more experienced with this sort of platform have indicated that I can't just take what I know from shooting a CZ or shooting a 10/22 and expect it to translate perfectly. Never would have occurred to me, for instance, that resting the Henry's forearm on a BR style rest would be problematic. So now I know that, and it will inform my next range trip. Hey, 9 out of 10 complaints I have had about firearm performance have turned out to be flangster-error in one way or another. Just trying to keep from being embarrassed is all. . . .
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:51 PM
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I do all my ammo testing with a lead sled and have never found that its front support being located under the forearm has any measurable effect on group sizes compared to supporting the gun under the receiver.

That being said, I would expect 2" groups at 100 yards, with the right ammo.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:52 PM
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Because of irregularities like the OP is describing, I shoot the Classic artillary style, holding just in front of the receiver with a flat palm resting on a towel.

Of course, that is how I would hold it out in the field as well, and I'm not going for tiny groups.
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