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  #16  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Vertical spread is the reason doubs.
I do almost all my range shooting at 200 yards.
1 fps difference in mv is 1/10th inch of vertical spread with standard velocity 22lr.
I can destroy the aimpoint if I zero there. A substantial number of rounds will hit tight
but the strays caused by mv differences spread vertically quite a bit.
Add a tailwind, or turbulence, the vertical for 50 shots can be 14 inches top to bottom.
With the aimpoint above the group it's there for all 50 shots.
Put it at the zero point and there's a good chance it'll disappear halfway through the run.
Thanks for explaining. When I have the chance, I'll try it both ways.
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  #17  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:35 AM
jaia
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I do know I will not be able to see the point of aim with iron sights at 200 yards.

Dave, use a standard 14" diameter target mounted high on the frame.
With a 100 yard zero a typical standard velocity 22lr will impact
about 46 inches to 54 inches below point of aim at 200 yards.
With the 14" diameter target up high and the center of cardboard 48 inches below
there'll be no need to change your sights. Same with a scope set for a 100 yard zero.
And, the sighting target will never be hit and can be reused for years.

I did this in the past before installing a 25 moa rail on the 455.



Aimpoint is at the top of the frame, targets at poi 46 to 52 inches below.



I'll probably do just that with my Marlin 60.
We'll be able to see how my squirrel rifle does at 200 yards without messing with the optics.

Last edited by jaia; 06-26-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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  #18  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:23 PM
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Here's a quick 10 shot group at my 16" gong set at 220 yards. The wind is howling at about 20mph over my left shoulder. First shot blew about 6" to the right at 3 o'clock. Held left and shot the 7 round group, which measured 6.5".

Shot the last 2 off hand, which landed at 12 and 2 o'clock.

Gun is a Winchester 9422 with iron peep sights. Geco rifle ammo.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180626_150302_1530044466701.jpg (395.2 KB, 52 views)

Last edited by CamP; 06-26-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:11 PM
David Valdina
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.17 @ 200 yards, video

Here is a video in light air of a .17 HMR at 200 yards. A tad over two inch group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgpXa0wWMz0
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2018, 10:00 AM
jaia
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Here's an hour and a half spent with the CZ 455 Son of Fuglie Lilja 17 hmr
on a Sinclair F-Class Bipod. Set trigger, Mueller 8-32x44 target model
Near calm, variable, 85 degrees F, minimal mirage






Vertical spread of 5 inches is due to muzzle velocity differences.

Last edited by jaia; 07-28-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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  #21  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:57 AM
jaia
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Same setup





Large circular pattern is caused by bullet seating.
ES is only 100 fps, not enough to create that much vertical.
100 fps would produce about 3 inches.
Seating depths varied and roll a cartridge on a flat surface
the bullet tips had a visible wobble about the axis of rotation.
Not a surprise to see such a large pattern from poor bullet alignment.

Last edited by jaia; 06-30-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2018, 02:40 PM
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jala- I appreciate your posts showing lack of consistency with ammo mfg. processes. Variations surely show up at the longer distances. It'd be interesting to see how groups with the same ammo would fare in a 200 yard enclosed tunnel where wind, mirage, etc. could be eliminated. Another thing I'm going to gather from your testing: if I miss, it may not be me after all.
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  #23  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:35 PM
jaia
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It's easy to tell when it's me.
Just look though the scope and it's dancing around the bullseye.
If I have a bad case of the yips I put the rifle away and head to the pistol range.
This morning I was relaxed and steady.
With the Sinclair and the heavy stock rig, no problem maintaining sight picture.
Early morning and mirage hadn't had a chance to set in.
No one using the rifle ranges at the local club. No big bangs to startle me.
The bright green sticker shows up clearly at 32x.
Center the crosshair, relax, squeeze, watch the hole appear.

Last edited by jaia; 06-30-2018 at 03:40 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:46 PM
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My scopes are limited compared to yours. 32x I might get if I added two 9's and a 14 together.
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:57 PM
jaia
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By dialing your crosshairs up, you can use a lower power scope.
Mount a large diameter target to aim at and you have an aimpoint to work with.
Bullets will impact below the large target that a low power scope can easily center on.
The only excuse not to attempt 100 yard plus rimfire is lack of shooting distance.
Some ranges only offer a maximum of 100 yards.

Big target up high, it's what I'll have to do with my Marlin 60.

Last edited by jaia; 06-30-2018 at 03:59 PM.
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:00 PM
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Correct. At my range, only centerfire are allowed on the part that runs out to 250.
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  #27  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:04 AM
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Wind kicked my adze this morning.
200 yards, Lapua Polar Biathlon 22lr
CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja sporter barrel, Mueller 8-32x44
Heavy bags, chrony out front, 84 degrees F, no mirage due to wind



Conditions and muzzle velocities



36 fps ES explains the 4 inches of vertical, 8 inches of horizontal was wind.

Could not time a shot to save my life.
Some spots no wind showing, other spots grass leaning over.
Direction depended on which swirl was traveling across the range.
Like to drive me nuts...it was so much fun.

Last edited by jaia; 07-01-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:36 AM
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These pics are certainly showing why/how Ive missed the properly scaled for 200yd. ram silhouettes off cross sticks.....you would think they would be gimme’s.
That range is in a cut between two bluffs and the wind is usually every which way.
Last shoot I got 8 of 10 and felt pretty good about it, best Ive done in a few years.
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2018, 10:10 AM
jaia
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This morning left me giggling.
4th of July, alone at the 200 yard range.
CZ 455 Lilja Varmint, heavy bags and a box from the bottom of the stash



Yep, Federal AutoMatch, bulk 22lr normally vaporized by the kids.
Quick look shows bare lead bullets with nicks and dings, irregular seating/runout.
Not wanting to lead up the bore on the Lilja, lubed each bullet before chambering.



That's paraffin and high performance 2 cycle oil, 10 to 1 mix by volume.
Just enough to coat the lead and minimize the deposits in the rifling.

Headwind at 4-8 mph
1260 fps hi
1233 avg
1201 low

ballistic calculator shows 3.9 inches of vertical for a 60 fps ES



7 inches of vertical, 8 inches of horizontal
not exactly what I'd call match ammo, 4 moa results off the bench.
But, apply the half/third rule, it gives a pretty decent idea of results at shorter distances.
Half of 200 yards is 100, 1/3 of 8 inches is about 2-1/2 inches, what I'd expect at 100 yards.
At 50 yards 1/3 of 2-1/2 is about 7/8 inch which is about right.
and at 25 yards, about 1/4 inch of spread which is fine for picking off tree rats 2 branches up.

Very relaxing and funny morning.
I could see the rounds spiraling off line against the backer in the morning sunlight.
No consistency whatsoever due to lack of ammo quality...and 1 fail to fire.
Pain in the butt to extract it from the Lilja EPS match chamber,
It is bulk, have to expect that.

Last edited by jaia; 07-04-2018 at 10:46 AM.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2018, 11:55 AM
jaia
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Another morning another 50
Bulk Federal 36 gr CPHP 1260 fps per the box.

Hi 1320 fps
Lo 1261 fps
Avg 1291 fps





8 inches of vertical, 8 inches of horizontal

Same rifle and setup, 20 minutes before shooting the Federal
For comparison, 20 shots with Lapua Polar Biathlon shows about 2-1/2 inches of vertical
Left target shot first with scope settings from last week.
Right target shot after adjusting crosshairs to center of first group.


Last edited by jaia; 07-08-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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