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  #901  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:27 AM
Triggershoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Now, now TS...you aren't seeing the big picture.

Think of it this way:

A box of 50 applied to a local competition benefits only that limited group competing.
A box of 50 sent at 200 yards, and posted here, is of use to any and all
attempting to improve their understanding of long range rimfire
and how ammunition quality, wind, skill and equipment affect results.
The 50 at 200 generates long term benefits for all of us.

Have to take the extended view, eh?

Not to mention all the rifle pron it provides.


That's what I like about you, Jaia--- You always bring the calm voice of reason to these hotly contested issues So for the common good, and to further the quest of knowledge within the [email protected] community, I hereby withdraw my selfish comment regarding the UM1 ammo.
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  #902  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:17 AM
jaia
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What I like about you TS, is the snappy come-backs.
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  #903  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:15 PM
jaia
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A few months ago, I tried some Winchester M22.
Made two attempts. Many problems. Sent an email to Winchester customer service
with attached pics of the problem cartridges. They sent me a shipping label
and had the remainder of the 1000 cartridges picked up and returned to the factory.
Winchester has mailed a refund check and apologized for the irritation caused.
Took a while, but it was taken care of. Good enough.
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  #904  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:46 AM
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That is 'some trouble' to have to go through but how else do we get the mfg'ers attention that things aint right. I fear that many times ammo like that would have ended up on some gs table rather than back in the lap of who made it.
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  #905  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:57 PM
jaia
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Crankster, no way would I have sold or given that 22lr away.
The lead from the bullet heel had been shaved off during seating,
then crimped to the exterior of the brass, which resulted in partial chambering
when I attempted to use it. In a semi-auto it would have resulted in out of battery discharges.
That batch was just unsafe production and should have never left the plant.
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  #906  
Old 09-21-2019, 05:06 PM
jaia
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Third weekend in a row with gusty northeast winds and squalls.
Not what is wanted when attempting rimfire at 200 yards.

I've been embarrassing myself with pistols at 25 yards, instead.
Doesn't matter rimfire or centerfire,
I lack the necessary skill/talent for offhand shooting with iron sights.
I keep trying, but the results show little improvement over time.

Good thing red dots can be mounted on most pistols.

At least then I can produce a few decent targets.


While burning through some Fed Hi-V Game-Shok,
took the time to inspect the cartridges before loading the mags.
There are many visible defects on the cartridges, fresh from the box and protective tray.
I guess for pistol use at close range it doesn't make a big difference
but at 50 yards and beyond, I wouldn't expect anything worthwhile.



How many defects do you see?
Dents, dings, slanted drive bands, differences in seating depth and angle?
Not what I want when attempting rimfire for score.

Last edited by jaia; 09-21-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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  #907  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:31 PM
jaia
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Wind ESE at 8 to 17 mph with blue skies.
Much better than the squalls and gusts we were getting.
Some leftover Aguila Target 40 grain 22lr rated 1080 fps.

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair



Quick inspection shows dings, irregular seating depth, variations in the drive bands.



103 fps ES should show about 10 inches of vertical.
The rest is me and the wind kicking my adze.

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  #908  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:43 PM
jaia
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I was handed a box of old production Eley Tenex.
Produced about 1975 from what I could find on the web.

It's 40 grain 22lr with a silvery lubricant on the bullets.
Packed loose in the cardboard tray, but still in decent shape.

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair bipod



12 dot box helps to identify about when it was made.



Imperial Metal Industries (Kynoch) tightens up the time frame



Even packed loose the cartridges don't show many visible defects.
Quite uniform in appearance.



And even after over 40 years in storage, still only 33 fps ES.



Not bad for antique 22lr with gusting headwinds. Not bad at all.
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  #909  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:13 AM
Triggershoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
I was handed a box of old production Eley Tenex.
Produced about 1975 from what I could find on the web.
And even after over 40 years in storage, still only 33 fps ES.
Not bad for antique 22lr with gusting headwinds. Not bad at all.
That Tenex shows what Eley was capable of even 40 years ago. Imagine what that stuff would have shot like when "fresh". 33 fps ES from 40 yr old ammo? I'm very impressed, it must have been stored in a stable temperature environment for sure. Jaia (and others), thanks for the continuing info and effort you put forth into this thread. I thought at some point I could contribute as well, but it seems I'm lucky just to find enough time to shoot the competitive MATCHES, let alone do any practice/testing (what's THAT?)
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  #910  
Old 09-28-2019, 05:26 PM
jaia
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All ya' need is one good morning TS.
Grab a box of y'er best, or worst, or both, and send it at 200 yards.
Don't forget the pics of rifle, setup, range and results.
We need the rifle pron.

Crankster, you were a bit impatient to see the Buckmark Silhouette on a bipod.
Due to the softness of the wood used for the forestock, it required epoxy reinforcement of the sling stud.
After drilling, coated the interior of the hole with jbweld and threaded the stud in place.
Cured overnight, then checked the fit and stability of the connection to a Harris S-BR.
Solid attachment and much better control of the pistol when dry firing on #6 plastic drywall anchors.
Supposed to be decent weather in the morning, find out how it does at 200 yards.

Last edited by jaia; 09-28-2019 at 05:35 PM.
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  #911  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:37 PM
jaia
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Nice morning, still warm with an ESE wind at 6-12 mph, my 2 o'clock.
Buckmark Silhouette on a bipod to see what happens.



Remainder of a box of Remington Range hi-v 22lr at 200 yards.
No chronograph, just trying to find out how to use a pistol on a bipod.



Sent 5, checked the group, adjusted the scope right, sent another 5, adjusted a bit up.
Then sent the rest, 5 at a time, trying different hand positions to determine the most consistent.
Definitely not like using a rifle on a bipod. Interesting how hand location changes stability.
Vertical spread changed depending on grip and recoil bounce.



Once the scope was adjusted sent the remnants of a few other boxes at the steel plates.
Easier hitting the 14 inch plate using the bipod than off the heavy bag.

Then this voice said....Hey, the Sinclair is in the range box!

F-Class Buckmark Silhouette



Had to stop due to laughter. Not mine.
Another shooter had wandered over to see what I was up to.
He had to sit down and check the view through the EER scope to see what it was like.
He had to take a couple pics also, as proof 200 yards with a pistol was feasible.

The Sinclair bipod produces more control and better stability.
I'm going to have to send some decent ammo at 200 with the Buckmark
now that I have an idea of what I'm doing.
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  #912  
Old 09-29-2019, 01:31 PM
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I WANT ONE!
I wouldnt have to make up any more excuses for my overly-large groups
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  #913  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:13 AM
jaia
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No excuses necessary Crank.
Own up to y'er results and watch for improvement over time.

In my case, there's plenty of room for improvement.


Asymmetric bullets caught my interest due to the odd fliers showing up at 200 yards.
Some interesting videos out there with the 22lr.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Dylxy3zJc
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  #914  
Old 10-06-2019, 12:59 PM
jaia
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Wind from the East at 12 to 18 mph.
Gusting headwinds, not really conducive to consistent results.
Good excuse to play with the F-Class Buckmark Silhouette.

That way when I mess up I can blame it on the wind.

Grabbed the bulk box of Winchester 36 grain cphp left from earlier this year
and set 3 big targets on 3 backers at 200 yards to work with.
Chewed up the first target adjusting the scope and trying different body positions
looking for the most comfortable and stable which allowed the best control.
Then sent 50 at one target, adjusted the scope a little more, then 50 at the last target.

Old Remington tray holding 50 cartridges of the Winchester to keep track.



The first 50 trying to hit the black dot



The next 50 after another scope adjustment



Kept all the shots on the backer this time.
Even with the gusting headwind.
Not quite so much lateral spread.
about 14 inches of vertical, apply the half-third rule

100 yards expect 4.7 inches of vertical
50 yards would be 1.6 inches of vertical
25 yards and 0.5 inches of vertical with a pistol, for 50 consecutive shots.

Bulk 22lr under lousy conditions from a pistol.
I could do that again. Quite enjoyable.
Still causing laughter from the benchrest guys.

Last edited by jaia; 10-06-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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  #915  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:09 PM
Eaglehunter

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50 at 200

It was a really nice day today and I was finally able to get out to the range. Only 100 yards though, so not in line with the parameters of this thread, but I thought it may still provide a somewhat useful data point.

My primary objective was to test out my new Labradar and get chrono data for the Eley Force ammo, but unfortunately I could not get the LR to register any of the shots... out of the 100 shots, it only registered two and the velocities were way off (as in higher than 2000fps), so that may also be an indicator that I need to look into. I will have to play around with it a little more to figure out what settings need to be adjusted.

Anyhow, back to the shooting. I got a little frustrated with the LR and in the end just shot out all the mags in quick succession without trying to break any records, which may explain some of the flyers, but then maybe it could have been a little bit of inconsistency in the ammo as well... in the end I have 42 out of 50 shots in an inch at 100 yards and applying 1/3 rule it brings it to approximately 3 inches for more than 80% of the shots...

Setup:
KIDD supermatch with 20 barrel
Bushnell HDMR
Harris bipod and I just used my sweater as a rear bag since I forgot mine at home.







I also shot a second target with my other 10/22. It is a stock 10/22 receiver and trigger with a green mountain barrel and PA scope. I did not take a picture of the rifle unfortunately. The overall results were very similar than for the KIDD; just a little wider:

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