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  #16  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:07 PM
scooter22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
I have never used it on centerfires but a member here PM'd me and said he had seen it used on a shot gun to get the pattern more centered on where it was pointed. I think he said it was a .410 break open. I would expect that other than using it for barrel pressure points you may have to keep an eye on it as recoil may, or may not, move the tape around some and you will need to add second or even third "tune ups" as the recoil mashes the glue.

That is just a guess for me. I would certainly not be afraid to try it on a centerfire especially something like a 22 Hornet or a .223. That actually gives me an idea for using it on the forearm of my .223 T/C Contender "Super14" pistol.

That is the thing with this kind of bedding. Get an idea and 20 minutes later you are ready to test with out any permanent alteration to the firearm. Combine it with the rubber barrel supports and the possibilities are almost endless.

As far as the rubber supports if you want something thinner go to WalMart or elsewhere and buy a can of tire tub patches. They come already cut to small neat patches that are thinner for places where the inner tube is too thick.
I may try it on my .223/788. I don't need the 7mm-08 carbine shooting any tighter for what it's used for.
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  #17  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:21 PM
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Individual holes are right on .220 -.222 so I will use .221 to subtract from out side measurement and the first group with the barrel still full of Federal crud is:

.535" "Which is pretty close to the average group before"

.206" for second group including called flier. 4 shots into .060"

.156" For third group. One triangular hole.

That is with crappy front rest, no rear bag and shooting off a picnic table I hate to shoot off of so Andrew did a good job for a quick first test. I will play with moving the barrel support and Torque values because this was just screwed together with a screw driver not even knowing what it will want for torque.

Way better than it shot before from a shooting bench with a Cowan front rest and rabbit eared rear bag.
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Last edited by Vincent; 09-17-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  #18  
Old 09-17-2012, 09:02 PM
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Mighty nice improvement !!

I'm liking this idea more and more

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  #19  
Old 09-17-2012, 09:18 PM
scooter22
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Hey Vincent! Your alum tape bedding helped in another way today. I've got a nice, old Savage Model 19 Match that had the correct rear receiver sight but the wrong front. The gun shot 6" high at 50yds. So luck was with me at the big fall gunshow Sunday. I found the very rare front sight that goes with this set up. Problem was it was loose in the dove tail. Slid right in/out. After reading all the advise on mutilating the sight base or slot, I cut 3 tape shims, stuck them to the sight base and VOILA! Nice TIGHT tap in fit. No damage to either surface.
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  #20  
Old 09-17-2012, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter22 View Post
Hey Vincent! Your alum tape bedding helped in another way today. I've got a nice, old Savage Model 19 Match that had the correct rear receiver sight but the wrong front. The gun shot 6" high at 50yds. So luck was with me at the big fall gunshow Sunday. I found the very rare front sight that goes with this set up. Problem was it was loose in the dove tail. Slid right in/out. After reading all the advise on mutilating the sight base or slot, I cut 3 tape shims, stuck them to the sight base and VOILA! Nice TIGHT tap in fit. No damage to either surface.
You would not believe how many things I have used the tape for. It is also great for shimming scope mounts when a rifle shoots too high or two high.

I used in in places on my Karts going back 30 years. I figured if it was good enough for the Space Shuttle it was okay for me.

I used it for a sunshade on my face shields on my full face helmets and looked much better than duct tape and was easier to clean up.

I have used it for making gaskets.

I used it in places on my Baja Bug to keep fine desert dry lake powder like dust out.

I have used it to temporary repair inflatable mattresses.

After my Quality Control career I did consulting and teaching in many industries teaching "Lean Manufacturing" "Statistical Process Control" ISO 9000 compliance and similar things. One company I worked at was called Laminated Shims in Anaheim, CA. They made shims of aluminum laminated together for the aerospace industry. They would make huge blocks of this stuff and the machine them to fit places on different aircraft. Picture how long a Boeing 747 wing is. Because of "stacked tolerances" they could end up with a wing several inches longer than another one yet all the pieces be in spec. What to do? Laminated Shims made peel off shims for the wing roots of many passenger jets. Right wing 4" shorter than the left? No problem! Peel off the correct amount of amount of laminated shim stock and put that stack at the root of the wing!!
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Last edited by Vincent; 07-18-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2012, 12:17 AM
scooter22
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"The rest of the story"
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2012, 12:37 AM
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So I am addit.....er.....creative with the stuff.

Did crack me up when I went to Laminated Shim in about 1997 or so and looked around and told those guys "Hey I have been doing this for years!!"

You should have seen the giant milling machines they used to mill shims the were probably 15-20 feet long
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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I use a similar method that produces very good results in a non-permanent application. This came from something I had on hand as well. Being frugal, I hate to pay the price H-D charges for replacement gaskets so I make my own. I have several materials and thicknesses on hand to experiment with.
When I got a Boyds Rimfire Hunter stock for my Marlin XT-22, I found it was inletted to accommodate the various 800, 900, and XT series actions and milled for a heavy barrel.
The front action lug on these rifles is fitted in a loose dovetail that will drift laterally until tightened, making a tight action to stock fit even more critical.
I ended up using some 1/32" low compression rubber/fiber gasket material to fill the unused inletting and stabilize the action and recoil lug areas. Attached with a few dots of super glue.


This worked out very well with a tight, motion free mount.
I'd like to try this with the old hard cork gasket material, but that stuff has become very scarce and I'm saving what I have for the oil wasters.
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2012, 03:01 PM
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I believe some of the Anshutz rifles had a cork gasket like bedding material. I have read about it but never seen it is person.

I really like what you have done with the bedding of this rifle

Is this material something you can get in automotive stores?
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Last edited by Vincent; 07-18-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:43 PM
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My CZ 452 TH Varmint had lateral wiggle at the rear of the receiver. I did the Vincent fix. No more wiggle. I also used the inner tube at the muzzle end without improvement. I removed it and then removed the barrel lug. Still no movement but five shot groups at 50 yards with scope off bag in front and bunny ears in the rear with Federal Premium Ultra Match down to
.19"

I purchased a Norinco JW-15 very used to pillar bed it since I didn't want to do it on the Varmint for a first attempt.

Thank you Vincent.
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:48 PM
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Re: Cork Gasket

I don't know about automotive stores, but you might want to try some model train on line suppliers. There are cork sheets and strips of varying thicknesses that just might "seal the deal", so to say.

They can also be sanded down to appropriate thicknesses.
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  #27  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:36 PM
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I have been following this thread with great interest. Thanks to "vincent" for the fine work and great information. Lots of time and effort to post this kind of detail of one's work.

Now to my problem which I think may be solved by following what others have done in this thread. I have a Savage MKII BTVS about 3 years old, I am the original owner. It has shot very good at times but never really consistent over time. I have done the obvious things, floated barrel, torque settings, ammo testing and heavy bottom metal plate from DIP. Used three different known good scopes and the crown looks excellent.

Today I used some lipstick to mark the bottom of the action studs, the receiver and tang (well, the rear of the receiver) as well as the bottom of the barrel forward of the receiver. I placed the action back in the stock, torqued to 16 in/lbs, front and rear, then removed the action. What I found was that the receiver only touches the stock on the left side, at the rear and at the very front on the bottom. The action studs do not contact the stock on the bottom and the barrel does not touch the stock at any point.

I believe this may the source of my inconsistent POI of this rifle. The barrel has also always lined up to the right of center although it is floated.

I want to use the tape method to bed the action as I don't really trust myself to use the standard devon method and the tape can be removed/added very easily.

I think I should add tape to the right side of the stock and in the bottom where the action studs should touch the stock. So does this sound like the route to go or ???? Thanks.
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  #28  
Old 10-30-2012, 03:26 PM
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These things are " try and find out" sorts of things. It definitely sounds like a more even support would help and I think you are on the right track.

Also there is the possibility that the stock is never going to give you what you want. We used to have a saying in racing:

"You can wash a dog"
"You can brush a dog, you can put a ribbon in it's hair"
"When you are done it is still a dog"

Now please do not take insult from that I am just saying there are some wounds too large to Band Aid.

I would proceed just as you suggested. I would definitely try a barrel support of rubber of some kind and try to even up the contacts Having things so unbalanced in the bed can not be helping you. If you try it and it does not work the first time re do the lip stick and see where you are.

I am very interested to hear what happens so please post your results and then we can go from there. Best of luck with it.

Oh....the barrel being off center in the stock? If it is not touching one side then it probably does not matter except visually. BEFORE you proceed on everything else try wrapping the barrel with black electrician's tape so it barely fits into the barrel channel and then putting it in the stock and see if that changes where things touch. Maybe the thing is just going into the stock crooked.

Anyway good luck and let us know. Maybe we can work this out together
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Last edited by Vincent; 11-01-2012 at 05:26 PM.
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  #29  
Old 10-30-2012, 04:09 PM
ragswl4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
These things are " try and find out" sorts of things. It definitely sounds like a more even support would help and I think you are on the right track.

Also there is the possibility that the stock is never going to give you what you want. We used to have a saying in racing:

"You can wash a dog"
"You can brush a dog, you can put a ribbon in it's hair"
"When you are done it is still a dog"

Now please do not take insult from that I am just saying there are some wounds to large to Band Aid.

I would proceed just as you suggested. I would definitely try a barrel support of rubber of some kind and try to even up the contacts Having things so unbalanced in the bed can not be helping you. If you try it and it does not work the first time re do the lip stick and see where you are.

I am very interested to hear what happens so please post your results and then we can go from there. Best of luck with it.

Oh....the barrel being off center in the stock? If it is not touching one side then it probably does not matter except visually. BEFORE you proceed on everything else try wrapping the barrel with black electrician's tape so it barely fits into the barrel channel and then putting it in the stock and see if that changes where things touch. Maybe the thing is just going into the stock crooked.

Anyway good luck and let us know. Maybe we can work this out together
First, no insult taken. It was kind of a "WOW" when I saw how badly the action was fitting in the stock. My first thought was "maybe this stock cannot be fixed". I have already started putting tape in the stock and will update as I find something positive or negative. I feel it can't hurt to try this, I won't know until I try. I can always get another stock.

As soon as I can (if) get the action to sit evenly in the stock I'll shoot the rifle. Previously I was shooting 5 shot 1/2" groups @50yd with Wolf MT and then next time out 3/4-1" in the same conditions. I have 2 other stocks from Boyd's identical to this one and the actions fit great in a CZ and Marlin. Thanks again and I don't plan on giving up. Thanks for your offer of help, I may need it.

UPDATE: After 2 layers of tape on the left side of the stock (length of the receiver) and 7 layers on the right side I know have passed the lipstick test. Interestingly the barrel is now centered in the barrel channel of the stock. I'll be shooting next Monday to see if I have any success. I'll try it with and without the pad at the front of the stock under the barrel. Anticapating improvement but won't be disappointed if there is none. The reason is that I think this stock was inletted improperly from the git go.

Here is what I have done so far. I stopped here as I want to do this in steps, testing as I go.


Last edited by ragswl4; 10-30-2012 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Some success, so far.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:06 PM
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Results after Aluminum Tape Bedding

I don't have any targets to post that are prior to bedding but my normal 5 shot groups with this rifle and Wolf MT/SK Std + ammo was 3/4" with an occasional 1/2" group. The picture is today's shooting after bedding. The lowest shot was either me or the ammo. I probably caused it after seeing the first 4 shots go into virtually the same hole. I must admit I was excited. There is no question that the bedding greatly improved this rifle. In addition I was able to shoot some Aguila Pistol Match and Federal 711B into 3/4" 5 shot groups which previously would be 1-1 1/2" groups with the 711B being the least accurate. I also tried a pad under the barrel at the fore end of the stock. Groups got a little worse so removed it. Seems this barrel wants to be totally floated.

My hat is off to "Vincent" for his posting of this method for bedding. I have been messing with this rifle for over 2 years with little to no improvement. No question that the inletting of the stock was the problem. I now have a rifle that I can enjoy shooting rather than feeling frustration everytime I would shoot it.


Last edited by ragswl4; 11-01-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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