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  #16  
Old 11-12-2003, 01:02 PM
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At the highest levels of competition in Benchrest, you ain't gonna win with a junk rifle. If your rifle won't shoot in the .2's at 50 yards you will have a significant handicap.

That said, when everyone has rifles that shoot in the .2's it comes down to marksmanship, ie: reading the wind.

In the offhand games holding the rifle steady and knowing when to let that shot off as the cross hairs dance may be more important than wind doping, but then again you have a much larger 10 ring and more margin for error.

All good games, just different. GG
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2003, 01:46 PM
Kent Owens
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Benchrest is a science of sorts and Forester's right. A lot of people just don't understand it, but if they would go to a match and sit down and try their skill they might see what it's all about. As for an equipment race, the rules dictate the equipment, so everyone has a fair shot at getting top notch equipment. If you do you own smithing, so much the better. I will say the guys I've met shooting rimfire BR are some of the finest people I've yet to meet, and I've onl met a few of 'em. It must be a great sport to attract such quality people. I like it, because it's a challenge. It's not about who spends the most money on equipment--if it was I'd be scoring better--hehehee "Cause I have good equipment--but that's not the extent of it!
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2003, 02:25 PM
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Forester:

Didn't mean to create a problem. If I alluded to benchrest being an equipment race, it is because it simply takes a high investment to be competitive. High is always relative, I know. But my reference is that one cannot normally take a rifle such as a Remington 40X, or a tuned Winchester 52, or something comparable, and come close to winning matches in a competitive field. And when ammunition that groups well costs ten times what most of us grew up shooting, it should be obvious that there are a lot of expensive variables that must be overcome and normalized before it comes down to your skill versus the other guy. I am not criticizing or downplaying the benchrest game, as I like and admire it. But let's face it, in other events, a one-half minute of angle gun in the hands of the best shooter is all that's needed. In benchrest, that won't cut it.

regards,
Dan
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2003, 03:04 PM
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You are right Dan, and don't mean to speak for Forester but a difference of opinion should hopefully not be a "problem".

This game ain't for the needy, but it sure can help you become one of the needy real quick. GG

p.s. what the heck is "sillywet" Sounds like fun whatever it is.......
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2003, 03:48 PM
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GG: It's the game where you shoot those little iron chickens and such. You probably spell it "silhouette" in California. Sillywet is the way it's spelled in Georgia and South Carolina.

SSDan: No problem at all. I hope I didn't sound irritated, but I just felt that several comments in this thread needed responding to. The fact is that it does cost a lot of money to get started in benchrest, but that's true in most other shooting sports if you're going to compete at a high level. The smallbore shooters I hang around with have every bit as much money invested in their equipment as I have. Once you have the rifles capable of the necessary accuracy, then it's up to you to get them and keep them in tune. This, plus dealing with conditions on match day, is the heart of benchrest. Lots of tinkering, experimenting, testing.
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2003, 05:56 PM
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Sillywet. D-oh! GG
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2003, 06:34 PM
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I keep hearing how "expensive" shooting bechrest is. Don't get me wrong. It's not as cheap as oh say jogging, but it's something within most people grasps.

I think you can buy reasonably competitive used equipment for around $2000.

My brother-in-law snowmobiles. That's $6,000 just for the sled. Then add in the extras such as a trailer, clothes, gas, etc. Don't forget a sled for the wife too! That hobby makes benchrest shooting look pretty cheap. I have friends that fly R/C helicopters at $1,000 a peice. Most of them own more than 1 or 2. I have friends that spend $3,000 on a big screen TV. I know plenty of people who have more than $2000 worth of baseball cards (that hobby I just don't get). You get the picture. There are a lot of hobbies that you can spend $2000 on.

The point is that the costs involved make the sport available to most people.
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2003, 07:57 PM
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Talking

Benchrest is just like anything else, how fast do you want to go. You can spend as much money as you want to in any sport that you want. Silhouette isn't cheap either, top rifle is an Anshcutz 1710, Eley EPS (or comparable ammo), Leupold 6.5X20, Weaver V24, Sightron 6X24 and hours upon hours of practice. Only thing about benchrest is that you won't win with lacking equipment. I had a lady kick my rear end during a silhouette rifle match shooting a cz 452 classic, and eley ammo. Benchrest is not that forgiving. I still think one can take a non competitve rifle and learn the basics of benchrest shooting like wind, mirage etc. before spending the big money. Just b/c you spend 3000 in eqipment doesn't mean you can compete, it is only the beginning. Look at like buying a new car: Many people can afford the car and payment, (in this case the gun and equipment) but many can't afford the full coverage insurance (in this case ammo at nearly 1000 a case...1yr) I am going to college living at home and I have tried it 3 times and got of all three times for the same reasons, can't consistently afford the ammo, and do not have the frame of mind it takes to play the game. Figuring out a gun to achieve this kind of accuracy takes the utmost patience and self control, I haven't graduated that far in life yet. Still it is the worse bug I have ever been bitten buy. I had only one more score (first season) before I was a master class pistol silhouette shooter in the rimfire scoped division, sold it and bought a br gun. I then went on down the road to try my hand at golf, not bad at it. I had classes and an instructor, I quit, sold the clubs to buy a br gun. I am now a new AAA class (in my first season) shooter in rifle silhouette using the best all around gun I have ever constructed thinking of it selling it and buying a br gun or turning it into one. Don't ever start this sport if you aren't serious, you will spend your time pulling your hair out!!!!!
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2003, 09:53 AM
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Count me as a bag pincher with a mild grip, I shoot everything I have that way for consisitancy on my end, and it also seems to be the way my rimfires like to be shot. One thing I do change per rifle though is where i place the front rest under the stock. My one click clack likes it close to the action.
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2003, 10:56 PM
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Gordon,
I learned one thing today. You don't want to free recoil my new Encore 7MM-08 unless you want the pure Schitt slapped out of yourself. Love that gun BUT you sure want to hug that sucker like a bear. It might like to be free Recoiled like my CZ but I Ain't the fool that's gonna find out. Bill
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  #26  
Old 11-14-2003, 08:33 AM
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Of the 19 22s I have, all are shot with pressure except the hvy bench 10-22 I use for the matches (with a Kidd trigger) and the Ballard with set triggers. I might also mention that this form is used with the ammo that I have found which works best for each. On the other hand I have found that even the hvy 10-22 might shoot better with a less accurate ammo if pressure is used. In all the testing I have done to find a RIGHT ammo and lot number, testing is done with and without pressure to see if there is a difference. In each case, when one of these rifles finds something it likes, I have had better results with free recoil. In several instances, shooting a load that was not the best for the rifle, it sometimes helped groups to use pressure so it might pay to try both if possible.

I might also mention that before I came to this site I was fairly content for my guns to function properly and shoot minute of pop can or squirrel, shot off of a truck hood or fence post and owned maybe 3 or 4 22s. Now I have a dedicated 50 yrd range with a concrete block bench, a Bald Eagle rest system and spent more money on guns, ammo and equipment than I spent on my truck. Thanks a lot............hehe.

www.martincustom.com
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  #27  
Old 11-14-2003, 12:27 PM
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Benchrest is not just an equipment shoot

There is a term around the BR circuit that is used on those very rare days when the wind just shut's down. The sun is at your back and the mirage isn't dancing your target dot all over the Bull. They call these days("Equipment Shoot's.) Still, a misleading term at best when you are trying to punch five rounds at 50, 100 or even three hundred yards. Benchrest shooters have to follow all the basic rules of marksmanship that the Wimbeldon, or Palma match shooter has to follow. In the absence of wind conditions, there is always breathing technique, trigger control discipline and pulse rise to control. The dot inside my 36X seems to dance an inch up and down when I have 4-rounds in a sweet little bughole and my finger on the trigger of the fifth. It's the same feeling and problems that arise when I am laying prone in a pond bank watching Wile E Coyote at 300 yds and tickling the trigger of my .22-250 Ackley. Benchrest shooting to me is as much a game of physical conditioning as it is mental. Unless I am just the only one who gets excited with a group in the 1's? If the game ever looses this excitment, then I will just have to go back to flying R/C Planes.
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2003, 01:54 PM
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Hold 'em or...................

I really don't like to shoot "free recoil". It makes me feel like I'm not contributing much to the process. That being said I don't care to hold a rifle in a death grip either. I apply light cheek & shoulder pressure to everything I shoot, how light depends on the particular rig.

My Match 54 will tolerate more pressure than my 64 in the Fiberglass BR stock will. It (the 64BR) has to be shot just barely touching the gun. My old 64 Silhouette gun (in the factory silhouette stock) will let you hang on to it ever tighter than the 54. I just alter my bench technique based on whichever toy I'm playing with at the time.
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2003, 08:34 PM
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CZ Ultra Lux likes light pressure.
Contender Carbine is "frigid" and the less I touch it the better it likes it.
Since I've just got the AMT up and running (or rather XXRing got it running for me) I haven't spent enough time at the bench to decide what it really likes yet.

Concerning the "equipment race" Someone here has/had the signature line "Accuracy costs, how small do you want to go" and I agree to a point.
Just like you won't see a Toyota Corolla winning the Daytona 500, you also won't see a Marlin model 60 winning a national BR match.
Paul
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2003, 09:14 PM
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I want to make the rifle as accurate as I can within my budget. I also want to learn all of the techniques to improve my shooting skills. My goal is to see how well I can shoot an accurate rifle under my control. Free recoil might be a good way to test a rifle for accuracy, but I would not want to compete that way. I guess it is just the highpower shooter in me.
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