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Old 06-26-2019, 11:50 AM
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CLEANING A NEW BARREL



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Just got a brand new savage 223 rifle. Is there anything that is recommended to clean the barrel with before I put a single round down the barrel. I know all about the shot 1 or a few and then clean, repeat until you arm falls off barrel break in process. But is there anything that will lessen the fouling from the start.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:54 AM
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You can run a wet patch through it to remove any excess oils then dry it and shoot it

I don't believe in any intensive barrel break-in processes or procedures. Just shoot it and clean it as normal. Others will say otherwise and they are welcome to their opinions and practices.

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Old 06-26-2019, 12:25 PM
ammohog
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Check with Savage to see if they recommend a barrel break-in. If so, follow their instructions.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ammohog View Post
Check with Savage to see if they recommend a barrel break-in. If so, follow their instructions.
Good advice; some companies do, some don't. All I do different with a new barrel (gun) is to not shoot it enough to get hot for the first 100-200 rounds. Fire a few, let it cool, then fire a few more, etc..
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
You can run a wet patch through it to remove any excess oils then dry it and shoot it

I don't believe in any intensive barrel break-in processes or procedures. Just shoot it and clean it as normal. Others will say otherwise and they are welcome to their opinions and practices.
Yeah that. I've done it both ways and never the looong way again.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:49 PM
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I patch with gunscrubber and shoot it.

some info on barrel break in from Mike Rock of Rock Creek barrels, from a snipercountry interview:



"I've spent the last few months trying to get a better understanding of what a barrel break-in process is and how to properly clean a rifle. What to do and what not to do.

I've spent a lot of time on this board, the BR board and other shooting boards listening to members and what works for them. Conclusion, what works for some, doesn't work for others. Being an engineer in the telecommunications field, when it's broke or you don't understand something you go back to manufactures specs and schematics. So that's kinda what I did on this subject.

I've talked with 4 metallurgist and 3 barrel manufactures (Rock Creek, Hart and Shilen), on the subject. From a scientific point of view, they all said and agreed to pretty much the same thing.

First, barrel break-in processes keep them in business. This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your brand new match barrel. Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent metal-to-metal contact and reduce friction between two metal surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. Mike Rock at Rock Creek barrels gave me the most detailed explanations on barrels and ballistics. Mike has his degree in metallurgy; he was also the chief ballistics engineer for the Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. Stan Rivenbark was one of the top ballistic engineers for Raytheon before he retired in the 70's and also has a degree in metallurgy. I also talked with two local metallurgists here in North TX. I confirmed my findings with each person to see if they agreed or disagreed. Conclusion, they all agreed with each other's assessments.

When Mike worked at Aberdeen proving grounds, the Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin hits the primer and the round goes off. When the primer ignites there is enough pressure to move the bullet forward into the lands. The bullet then stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops at least twice and sometimes three times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact.

If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you've created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what's the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping two or three times as it leaves the barrel, that's two or three places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. The use of JB's and Flitz can and will take you down to metal-to-metal contact. For all intents and purposes, JB's and Flitz are not the most ideal products for cleaning your rifle.

According to Mike Rock, and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel. Shilen, Hart and Rock Creek will all void your barrel warranty if you shoot moly bullets and for good reason. This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it is when applied to bullets. There is no way possible to coat a bore with moly bullets. The bullet contact surface in the barrel is only so big. But when your round goes off, moly comes off the contact surface of the bullet in the throat area of the rifle and is bonded to the barrel due to the excessive heat and pressure. We're not talking coated or adhered to, we're talking bonded, d**n near permanent. With this, some of the jacket coating comes off the bullet. Follow this up with another round and you've now embedded the copper jacket between layers of bonded moly. This is the beginning of the black moly ring, which ruins countless barrels and is so hard; it can hardly be scraped off with a screwdriver's corner edge. This is what happened to a new Shilen SS select match barrel I had to have replaced with less than 400 rounds through it. I can't talk for Fastex as I don't or none of the folks I talked to knew enough about the product to comment on it. When I talked to Mike about my new barrel and the barrel break-in process, this is what he had to say. He first hand laps each barrel with a lead lap. He then uses two products from Sentry Solutions, a product called Smooth Coat (KOTE), which is an alcohol and moly based product. He applies wet patches of Smooth Coats (KOTE) until the bore is good and saturated and lets it sit until the alcohol evaporates. The barrel now has loose moly in it. Next he uses a product called BP-2000, which is a very fine moly powder. Applied to a patch wrapped around a bore brush, he makes a hundred passes or so through the barrel very rapidly before having to rest. He repeats this process with fresh patches containing the moly powder a few more times. What he is doing is burnishing the barrel surface with moly and filling in any fine micro lines left by the hand lapping. He then uses a couple of clean patches to knock out any remaining moly left in the bore.

With the barrel burnished with moly, this will prevent any metal-to-metal contact during the barrel break-in process. My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regimen of cleaning and if you have to use JB's or Flitz type products, go very easy with them, or better yet avoid them. Never clean down to bare metal. He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don't be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don't let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

Well that's the long and skinny from the scientific point of view on the subject. If you're ever in doubt about the real condition of your barrel, take it to someone who has a bore scope and even better if someone has a bore scope that can magnify the view. You may be surprised at what is really going on in your barrel."
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem-E View Post
I've talked with 4 metallurgist and 3 barrel manufactures (Rock Creek, Hart and Shilen), on the subject. From a scientific point of view, they all said and agreed to pretty much the same thing.

Mike Rock at Rock Creek barrels gave me the most detailed explanations on barrels and ballistics. Mike has his degree in metallurgy; he was also the chief ballistics engineer for the Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. Stan Rivenbark was one of the top ballistic engineers for Raytheon before he retired in the 70's and also has a degree in metallurgy. I also talked with two local metallurgists here in North TX. I confirmed my findings with each person to see if they agreed or disagreed. Conclusion, they all agreed with each other's assessments.

My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regimen of cleaning and if you have to use JB's or Flitz type products, go very easy with them, or better yet avoid them. Never clean down to bare metal. He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don't be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don't let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

Well that's the long and skinny from the scientific point of view on the subject. If you're ever in doubt about the real condition of your barrel, take it to someone who has a bore scope and even better if someone has a bore scope that can magnify the view. You may be surprised at what is really going on in your barrel."
There it is.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:49 PM
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This advice pertains more to the centerfire barrels. That's what the OP asked about.

Remember what the initial "break in" does. It knocks down and smoothes out burrs from the barrel chambering and barrel making operations. You can probably feel these when you initially clean. Remember that custom gunsmiths make match barrels on hand lapped blanks.... They don't start a custom barrel on a $4.00 factory barrel with all the tool marks, chips, and boo-boo's.

Your goal is to help along the process of the shooting knocking down any burrs left over from barrel making or chambering without allowing a big hard lump of gilding metal to accumulate.

So do a quick once over cleaning. Then shoot one and clean. Does it clean quick? Any fouling lumps at the end of the chamber? If so shoot one more and then clean. If not - shoot more and clean as normal...

Custom barrel makers are giving you advice about THEIR product - not about standard factory barrels. Bench rest shooters are the same - they don't shoot factory barrels in competition.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:54 PM
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i have had centerfire .308 factory barrel 700s that the barrels have gained accuracy from being shot, but it is due to copper fouling in the bore smoothing them out. they shoot better up to the point they get too fouled and start losing accuracy. if you clean all the copper out of them, you start at square one and have to shoot them some to bring the accuracy back. what i usually do with my 700 is just knock down a little bit of the copper to get my accuracy back. and it is a rifle that has shot sub 1/2 MOA out to 800y from day one. i dont break in barrels with the 1 round clean thing. i dont see the point. my 700 got no break in and shoots 1/4" groups at 100y. so that is just my $.02 from my experience. your mileage may vary.

Last edited by Clem-E; 06-26-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:14 PM
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2 cents, For Break In If you have a factory barrel follow there, Maker break in process: Factory barrels are notoriously rougher. If you have a custom barrel follow the makers instructions. This will save you, much time cleaning in future and your barrels for the most part will shoot like they should.
Lapping or Tubbs bullets not out of the question with rough factory barrels

Last edited by Wyocaddis; 06-26-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SAM22673 View Post
Just got a brand new savage 223 rifle. Is there anything that is recommended to clean the barrel with before I put a single round down the barrel. I know all about the shot 1 or a few and then clean, repeat until you arm falls off barrel break in process. But is there anything that will lessen the fouling from the start.
Nope, if you want a good barrel, Follow instructions, a liitle time spent with a new barrel will provide many benefits in the future. You either have a rougher barrel or you don't.

Last edited by Wyocaddis; 06-26-2019 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:40 PM
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centerfire rifle calibers dont really foul like rimfires and centerfire pistol caliber stuff. rifles burn almost all of the carbon out. which is why many rifle suppressors are not user serviceable and rimfire/pistol centerfire caliber cans are. that being the case, the limited carbon fouling in a rifle barrel isnt going to be an issue like it would with lower pressure cartridges. no offense to anyone, but if performing some ritual like cleaning every so many rounds, or doing a voo doo dance or whatever actually helped; people who do this for a living that dont make a dime off you doing it or not, wouldnt be advising against it. the most accurate shot a barrel will send is the first one. that is when the throat erosion starts. some cartridges like 6.5-284 make it happen sooner due to over bore. but .223s and .308s generally have an accurate service life of 8-10k rounds, if you dont mess them up by gouging the bore with repeated, un-needed cleanings. if done with proper materials like a bore guide, a quality rod, bass core brushes/jags, it wont hurt anything unless you are using an ammonia based chemical. just try not to put a knick on the crown as you are pulling the rod back through.

i have had one barrel that came with break in instructions. interestingly, i never did it and i guess it doesnt know because it is one of my best shooting barrels.

Last edited by Clem-E; 06-26-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:24 PM
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As you can see options vary

I have always found its better to break-in…..If you have a rough barrel your going to wish you would have

Clem has good points too, but for me the time spent is well worth the peace of mind latter.

Plus its trigger time and any of that is a good thing

Last edited by Wyocaddis; 06-26-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyocaddis View Post
As you can see options vary

I have always found its better to break-in…..If you have a rough barrel your going to wish you would have

Clem has good points too, but for me the time spent is well worth the peace of mind latter.

Plus its trigger time and any of that is a good thing


FWIW, I dont think if cleaned properly it will hurt anything. I was just hitting a highpoints of a worst case scenario.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:40 PM
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In other words, break it in

Last edited by Wyocaddis; 06-26-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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