Point of focus - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2018, 05:41 PM
bberg7794

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Location: 
New York's North Country
Posts: 
422
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Point of focus



Log in to see fewer ads
Hi all,

Everyone recommends focusing on the front sight when using iron sights, but I wanted to ask if it is recommended to focus on the intersection of the crosshairs when using a scope or to focus on the target? I seem to have trouble focusing on the dot/crosshairs when shooting offhand.

Looking forward to hearing your recommendations,

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:04 PM
noremf's Avatar
noremf
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2011
Location: 
Alabama
Posts: 
9,834
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
This will be interesting

Think this will be interesting.

This is what snipers are trained to do. Ain't easy to understand and practice.

Pretty much contradicts what everybody else does and will probably tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZK4vq6IFaw

and in english....

"Set your parallax to infinity, turn your mag full, run your ocular all the way in. Look at the blue sky or smooth bright wall. Look at the reticle ONLY, while spinning the ocular out until the reticle is crystal clear. Close your eyes often and reopening while making the final adjustments if needed.

Once the ocular is set, now look out the window or whatever and spin the parallax knob until the target is crystal clear. You can then back of the zoom for a brighter image. If it does not clear up, you indeed have a issue. If all is good, the clearest position should also keep the reticle and target in the same relationship even if you move your eye axis."
ref: U.S. Army back in the 60-70's Special Forces long range shooting

The key is to not stare at the reticle as your eye will "force" focus which kinda works but causes strain and kinda is not as good as the right way.

You look, then quickly close your eyes, look quickly close your eyes until when you open them the reticle is crystal clear.

If that helps.

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 07-17-2018 at 08:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:18 PM
bberg7794

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Location: 
New York's North Country
Posts: 
422
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Thanks for the link-I will have to watch it later.

I understand the part about focusing the reticle. I also understand the part about looking away from the sight just prior to reacquiring your sight picture and then squeezing the trigger, to avoid eyestrain. I do this with irons too. Our eyes get tired, and to get the best sight picture, one doesn't want to focus too long before squeezing off the shot.

But, snipers have a lot of time and don't have to deal with the movement that I am seeing in offhand. Maybe the same principles apply. I actually have wondered if I should focus on the crosshairs or target dot in prone (and sitting/kneeling) as well.

So, my question is still, when getting ready to squeeze of the shot, should I be focusing on the crosshairs/dot or on the target?

Right or wrong, with my target iron sights, my focus seems to switch back and forth between the front ring and aiming bull. It almost seems like I am actually concentrating on the "white" between the front ring and aiming bull.

Any advice appreciated.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:28 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,491
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
I successfully campaigned peep sight for decades, then not so good as my eyes changed. I had some scoped rifles and now really must if I want hits and good scores. Just as I had learned to focus on the front sight and let the rear and target fuzz a bit I am using the crosshairs in a similar way. But with enough magnification and fine crosshairs, or even a small dot, I can aim at a spot on the bull not just at the whole bull.
Imo, if you are not concentrating on putting the intersection of crosshairs/center dot on the center of the target you are not managing the equipment well.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:55 PM
bberg7794

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Location: 
New York's North Country
Posts: 
422
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
But with enough magnification and fine crosshairs, or even a small dot, I can aim at a spot on the bull not just at the whole bull.
Imo, if you are not concentrating on putting the intersection of crosshairs/center dot on the center of the target you are not managing the equipment well.
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I am getting distracted by my movement in the scope, but I do find it difficult to maintain focus on the dot, especially during offhand. I am currently using a Weaver T-16 with the small target dot, which should be perfect for 4P indoor. Also, even though the dot in my scope is very small, it completely covers the target dot on the USA-50 target we shoot in prone. But I am happy with this scope for prone, sitting and even kneeling. Offhand with this scope is where I am finding most of my struggles. My offhand seems better with my target irons, so far, and I would like to change this.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-16-2018, 09:03 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,491
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Have you tried adjusting for a 6:00 poa hold on the bull for center poi hits? I do better when I dont obscure the bull if the dot is Ďtoo bigí.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2018, 09:28 PM
CardPuncher's Avatar
CardPuncher
US Air Force Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Location: 
Northern Florida
Posts: 
2,024
TPC Rating: 
100% (7)
I shoot better when I'm concentrating on the crosshairs and trying to bring them to the target than watching the target and waiting for the crosshairs to get there.

Actually it's a dot, not crosshairs. The scope which works best for me is an $80 Centerpoint 4-16x40 because it has mil dots. I have better scopes but none have mil dots and the dot is easier for me to follow.

Not relevant to your question but I have it carefuly zeroed on turkeys and I know how to aim using the dots for the other animals. Doing it this way also means I don't have to be constantly adjusting the elevation and worying about tracking error.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2018, 09:28 PM
cowboy4
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2003
Location: 
Kentucky
Posts: 
2,971
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
If Iím understanding your inquiry, youíre asking about focusing on the crosshair intersection/dot or the animal. If thatís not what youíre asking then ignore this post from this point forward.
I focus on the spot on the animal while coaxing the dot into that location. Hopefully thatís where things are when the rifle goes bang.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2018, 11:32 PM
noremf's Avatar
noremf
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2011
Location: 
Alabama
Posts: 
9,834
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Me in blue

Me in blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bberg7794 View Post
Thanks for the link-I will have to watch it later.

I understand the part about focusing the reticle. I also understand the part about looking away from the sight just prior to reacquiring your sight picture and then squeezing the trigger, to avoid eyestrain.

Not quite.




What you do is get on the range and do the infinity thing and look like at the sky or something way out there with the objective lens set on infinity and then adjust the reticle focus until the reticle is absolutely clear. Do the "quick look a number of times until the reticle is absolutely clear.

Once you do that you don't have to do that again unless atmospheric conditions change.

You then set up the yardage you are shooting at by using the objective lens and should make both the reticle and the target clear WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT!. If you did the reticle focus right then you don't have to re-adjust the reticle focus for different ranges again unless atmospheric conditions change.

You you can concentrate on the target and the reticle will be in focus . Don't have to go back and forth.


I do this with irons too. Our eyes get tired, and to get the best sight picture, one doesn't want to focus too long before squeezing off the shot.

But, snipers have a lot of time and don't have to deal with the movement that I am seeing in offhand.

Snipers don't have a lot of time when they are on the target maybe but they do when they are setting up. And they have to deal with same type of movement as you all the time if they are shooting offhand. They cut that down by how they hold the rifle ie: stance and timing the shot at some point in the "figure 8" movement which is the most common wobble whether you are using iron sights or a scope.



Same for silhouette. If you try and muscle the wobble you can't do it so again time on the figure 8 movement.

Gotta figure out what YOUR wobble is and again trying to muscle it will simply change it from shot to shot. Get a consistent wobble irrespective of what it is that day and the conditions you are shooting in and then time where on the figure 8 you are going to squeeze that last bit of tension on the trigger so it will go off.

Actually shooting silhouette you have less movement because the target is not moving whereas with a human target it often is.


While my MOS was not as a sniper we had to be able to hit targets up to 600 yards whether with a scope or iron sights.

Maybe the same principles apply. I actually have wondered if I should focus on the crosshairs or target dot in prone (and sitting/kneeling) as well.

With a scope see above.


So, my question is still, when getting ready to squeeze of the shot, should I be focusing on the crosshairs/dot or on the target?

See above.

Right or wrong, with my target iron sights, my focus seems to switch back and forth between the front ring and aiming bull. It almost seems like I am actually concentrating on the "white" between the front ring and aiming bull.

Have to force yourself to concentrate on the front sight if you want to maximize your scores.

Any advice appreciated.
noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 07-18-2018 at 09:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:45 AM
Test_Engineer

Join Date: 
Nov 2014
Location: 
On a Colorado glacier
Posts: 
1,962
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I'm more of a hunter than a bullseye shooter, so this is what works best for me:

I focus on whatever is moving around the least. That helps me to be moving around the least at the shot.

So if an animal is standing still, I focus on the place I want the bullet to hit and adjust the crosshairs to that point. Bang. If the animal is walking (or running) along, I focus on putting the crosshairs in a place directly in it's line of travel. Then when I feel that the bullet and the animal will reach the same aiming point at the same time, bang.

Most of the meat I eat comes from the field, so I must be doing something right.

Edit- Forgot to mention that 95% of my shots are off hand. It's pretty rare to get a nice braced shot with my typical hunting scenarios.

Last edited by Test_Engineer; 07-17-2018 at 01:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-17-2018, 07:58 AM
acorneau's Avatar
acorneau

Join Date: 
Feb 2014
Location: 
Houston, TX
Posts: 
988
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
I focus on (stare at) the target and bring the crosshairs/dot in with what is essentially peripheral vision, albeit very close to the center of vision.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-17-2018, 08:57 AM
bberg7794

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Location: 
New York's North Country
Posts: 
422
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy4 View Post
If Iím understanding your inquiry, youíre asking about focusing on the crosshair intersection/dot or the animal. If thatís not what youíre asking then ignore this post from this point forward.
I focus on the spot on the animal while coaxing the dot into that location. Hopefully thatís where things are when the rifle goes bang.
This is exactly my question. Except for replacing "animal" with bullseye. I asked my question here in silhouette section since my problem with focus is worse during offhand than in other positions.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2018, 08:59 AM
Cstar's Avatar
Cstar
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2017
Location: 
Florida
Posts: 
62
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bberg7794 View Post
Hi all,

Everyone recommends focusing on the front sight when using iron sights, but I wanted to ask if it is recommended to focus on the intersection of the crosshairs when using a scope or to focus on the target? I seem to have trouble focusing on the dot/crosshairs when shooting offhand.

Looking forward to hearing your recommendations,

Brian
I concentrate on the target. As a rash generalization, it is likely you will not hit want you arenít looking at. However slight the advantage, I feel itís best to have the odds in your favor.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:05 PM
noremf's Avatar
noremf
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2011
Location: 
Alabama
Posts: 
9,834
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Silhouette

Quote:
Originally Posted by bberg7794 View Post
This is exactly my question. Except for replacing "animal" with bullseye. I asked my question here in silhouette section since my problem with focus is worse during offhand than in other positions.
My opinion but also based on experience.

Right place to post as silhouette shooting is not hunting or bullseye.

In NRA silhouettes you have, I believe, 2.5 minutes to hit 10 targets in a bank at 25 yards.

Then you shoot at a farther bank, 50 yards, and have 2.5 minutes to hit those 10 targets.

Again at a farther bank, normally 75 yards etc.

And then at the 100 yard marker with 2.5 minutes to hit 10 targets about the size of a rabbit.

Different variations depending the club you shot at but essentially the same...ie: some type of time limit for a bank of 10.

Hunting does not have a time limit and distances are rarely beyond say 30 yards so the relationship between the reticle focus and distance is pretty much overcome by the power of the scope.

Bullseye is done at either 25 or 50 yards so you are not changing POA during the session. Same thing about the relationship of reticle focus and the known distance and the power of the scope etc.

In Silhouette disciplines the relationships become more important irrespective of the scope power if you the approach the potential mechanical accuracy of the weapon and also what to someday hit 100% of what you you shoot at.

If the relationship were not important they would not train folks in the military to use it. At least they used to. With the technology today of lasers recommended hold overs and windage adjustments all built into the scopes, spotting and rifle, and a spotter in most cases that can confirm all of that stuff so the shooter knows exactly what the POA needs to be then maybe they don't emphasis that anymore but I know for a fact based on reunions, they do with most SF guys who are not snipers.

noremf(George)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:38 PM
acorneau's Avatar
acorneau

Join Date: 
Feb 2014
Location: 
Houston, TX
Posts: 
988
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Just to clarify, the normal NRA Silhouette system is...

- Targets are at 40m, 60m, 77m, 100m for smallbore. Lever-action is 40m, 50m, 75m, and 100m. Air rifle is 20y, 30y, 36y, and 45y.

- 15 second "ready" and 2.5 minutes to shoot five shots. After a brief break to score/reload, repeat for a second bank (in a 40-shot match), a third bank if a 60-shot match (less common). Afterward move to the next animal in the sequence.

Some clubs or informal matches deviate from these general rules to accommodate their shooters' requests or desires, but you get the picture.

Last edited by acorneau; 07-17-2018 at 01:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x