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  #1  
Old 10-02-2017, 07:27 AM
wildcat14

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Removing smoke smell from a stock



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Recently got a gun in a trade that has smoke smell on the stock. Whatís the best way to get rid of it. The stocks not in terrible shape but has a place of two i donít like. I have never refinished one but also canít find another one that I am sure will work on it. One thing I know is I would like the smoke smell gone while I decide what to do.


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  #2  
Old 10-02-2017, 07:53 AM
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Have you tried hanging air fresheners on it? Haha

Just kidding, it is easy to refinish a stock. If you have never done it before you should jump in. After stripping and refinishing the smell should be gone. Also I use G96 to wipe my guns and stocks down, smells good and I would think this would eventually get rid of the smell. Good luck!
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:37 AM
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Smoke smell

One of the things YOU DON'T WANT TO DO is to wipe down a topcoat/finish with motor oil!!!!

The "lube" in G96 is Mineral Oil which is a petroleum derivative and this is what it will, not can do over time....no matter how many anecdotal statements are made to the contrary no matter whether on our forum, any other or what you might see on places like YOUTUBE.

While this is product specific because the product was a "crowd pleaser" on RFC it applies to any product that contains Mineral Oil.

https://rimfirecentral.com/rfcftp/sto...D%20OTHERS.pdf

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...09&postcount=7

There are a number of posts and examples on RFC about what that chemical does to a transparent wood finish.

Might as well as put some of the used motor oil on your stock when you get an oil change.

They, like G96, will in fact get rid of the smell eventually....sure as it eats away the finish.

Once Mineral Oil penetrates the substrate you cannot not get rid of it nor can you apply a new finish over it.

You are forced to put a barrier coat of Shellac over it before you can refinish the stock.

As far as the smoke smell goes, the nicotine from cigarettes will penetrate any paint and get to the substrate whether it being wood or plasterboard or whatever, and wood finishes are simply paints with a very small amount of solids in them.

Since the contamination is below the topcoat/finish you cannot remove it without refinishing the stock.

You may be able to "mask" it with a variety of chemicals but the majority of those will also adversely affect the finish.

Refinishing a gunstock or dining room table for that matter is not difficult and can be done by virtually anybody that will not break and anvil when using it.

What it is though is a fairly rigid set of procedures which really don't require a lot of labor time and another set of procedures such as dry and cure times which don't require any but do require a fair amount of clock time.

Plenty of stuff on this forum that can prepare you to do so.

noremf(George)

PS: Don't use Howard's either.

Last edited by noremf; 10-02-2017 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:46 AM
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refinish it

and you will solve all your problems at once. I swear by Lin-speed stock finish, it gives fantastic results with easy application. chemical spray stripper should get rid of the smoke smell!
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:03 PM
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A simple sponge bath with murphy's oil soap will take care of any cigarette smoke residue a normal person can smell. I'm not trying to be a jerk but if just knowing a person that smoked owned the rifle bothers you sell it and buy one from a non-smoker. I watched a multi million dollar house sale fall apart because a landscape contractor was smoking a cig while mowing the lawn! Some people hate tobacco that much.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:23 PM
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FYI

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Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
A simple sponge bath with murphy's oil soap will take care of any cigarette smoke residue a normal person can smell. I'm not trying to be a jerk but if just knowing a person that smoked owned the rifle bothers you sell it and buy one from a non-smoker. I watched a multi million dollar house sale fall apart because a landscape contractor was smoking a cig while mowing the lawn! Some people hate tobacco that much.
Murphy's Oil soap is condemned by virtually every company that makes flooring as well as other engineered and non-engineered products such as kitchen cabinets.

If you use it you automatically violate the warranty.

Just ONE example from Bellawood.

"Oil soap is actually harmful to your wood floors. Many floor manufacturers explicitly state that oil soap should not be used to clean wood floors. For example, the Bellawood Prefinished Hardwood Floors Certified 50 Year Warranty expressly states, "Do not wash or wet mop the floor with, oil-soap detergent or any other liquid cleaning/polishing material containing oils such as Mineral Oil.

This can cause swelling, warping, delamination, and joint-line separation, and void the warranty." When you apply oil soap, you are leaving a residue on your wood floors. This residue will turn into streak marks. All of your wood surfaces will have an oil soap coating on them. This makes the finish on your floors look dull and over time will penetrate the finish causing it to lift and separate from the wood substrate.

When you use Murphy's Oil Soap, you will quickly learn that the advertising claims are fictitious. Obviously, this is not an advisable cleaning method. This is not even cleaning. It is just coating your floors with an oily, sticky residue! If you decide to clean your floors with oil soap, you will notice that in as few as five years, your floors will need to be stripped an recoated with topcoat. The oily residue left behind from oil soap will remain so much so that it may very likely gum up the screening disk when you recoat your floor in the future. Also, the new coating may have adhesion problems. Many homeowners have permanently ruined hardwood floors from using oil soap products.

Murphy's Oil Soap makes many misleading and false claims that sound convincing to anyone who has not done adequate research. For example, it promises to leave no residue behind. It is also supposed to remove wax build-up.

If you decide to give Murphy's Oil Soap a try, the next step will be learning is that it cannot be removed unless you sand past the original finish. This is obviously irreversible."


Another example of how Mineral Oil screws up finishes.

noremf(George)

PS: "GH41" NOT picking on you. Few folks on RFC understand stuff like chemical coatings, CLP's, liquid Silicone and Mineral Oil and many could care less. Posting stuff like this from an information standpoint allows me to contribute to their education.

Last edited by noremf; 10-02-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:50 PM
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What would be a good stain to whatever to finish the stock on this thing with if I decide to do it. I have no idea for sure what the wood is. It does have one gouge that will probably need to be filled with something.


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Old 10-03-2017, 01:53 AM
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Colorants

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Originally Posted by wildcat14 View Post
What would be a good stain to whatever to finish the stock on this thing with if I decide to do it. I have no idea for sure what the wood is. It does have one gouge that will probably need to be filled with something.


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Colorants come in 2 flavors. Stains which are made using metal oxides and simply are very thin paints. They don't penetrate much because of the particle size and mute both the visual illusion of depth and any subtle colors you might have in the stock.

Since they are basically "surface" paints they will add color with every application. Put enough on and it will look like your stock was painted with Krylon.

Dyes are the other and they are organic natural colors which penetrate and encapsulate both the wood fibers and cellulose and in doing so enhance both the visual illusion of depth and subtle colors in the stock. They also penetrate into the wood and won't increase the color no matter how many applications you use.

A pic going over that.



and there is a sticky on those.

Dyes are harder to use then stains because YOU are the quality control and YOU determine how potent the mix is.

What you use depends on what your "vision" for your stock is and the quality of the stock wood.

Any of the brand name stains are good. They have been tested and proven over time.

I am the most familiar with the MinWaxģ line though as I am a Sherwin Williams retiree and I used to run plants that made the MinWaxģ products.

They, like others made by recognized chemical coatings "house" work about the same.

I feel confident that RFC folks will recommend stuff they have been satisfied with.

It would really be helpful if you could post a pic or two of your stock. If you don't know how to do that there are folks on RFC that can tell you how or if needed post them for you.

You already have over 150 folks looking at your thread and as it gets more involved I would expect it would attract more folks.

noremf(George)
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:04 AM
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Iíll post some pictures in a few minutes. Iím not wanting to run before I walk with this one. Just get rid of the smoke smell and fix a few places in the stock.


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Old 10-03-2017, 07:42 AM
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:24 AM
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Short of refinishing, you might want to try wiping it down with mineral spirits. Make sure to remove the action from the stock so that you can clean the inside of the stock. Since it is often unfinished on the inside, clean well there and, if the smell is stronger on the unfinished inside of the stock, you can seal it with shellac or wipe on poly.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:02 AM
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IMO

Pretty poopy with pictures but I would bet the stock is Beech. If so then making it look like walnut via a refinish is easy if that is what you want to do. Even if it is Birch, it does not have the dreaded "foggy" vertical areas like so.



so also not hard to disguise that either.

If it did what you end up with using normal stains or dyes is simply a foggy piece of birch of a different color.

The finish is what is known as a toner topcoat which is a topcoat that is dyed, not stained, to impart an even color and hide small to medium blemishes. In your case it is almost certainly lacquer.

What that means is that the color is in the finish, not the wood as you can clearly see in your 3rd and fourth pictures.

What it also means is that when you remove it, unless you create a new toned topcoat exactly the color of the one on there it will stand out a whole bunch.

Even if you remove the finish say 3" from the end and color it the match will be easy to see unless you have a significant amount of artistic talent.

Those highly noticeable new "blemished" are called witness lines and are created by the chemicals which means you cannot make them invisible.

The dented area around the front swivel can be raised but effectively doing so requires removal of the finish. Topcoat/finishes do not play well with water and really don't with steam or heat.

Again, the smoke smell is in the substrate not the finish so odds on getting it off with any chemical that will not harm that finish are extremely small. Like the odds on you winning the next multi million dollar lottery.

ORIGINAL formula Mineral Spirits, NOT THE GREEN STUFF OR ODORLESS STUFF (There is a sticky on this) will remove the accumulated gunk without harming the finish.

The green stuff and the odorless stuff may or may not remove it but for sure will leave a nasty layer or soap or other junk on the stock that will not only be easy to see but easy to feel.

The rifle does not appear to have any extra ordinary value. Does it have any significant intrinsic value? If so then a refinish will destroy both.

In your case based on you not wanting to refinish and the odds on making the blemishes less noticeable then what you already have you might want to consider a different approach.

That would be to create a faux end piece on the stock.

What you could do to do that would be to tape off say 3 inches from the end at say a 30 or 45 degree angle and then simply scuff of the finish that is on there.

Then using a Gel Stain which is not the same as a normal stain, put some on that area creating what would look like a different piece of end wood.

This post goes over that process and shows how they are used to create faux finishes on a variety of substrates including metal.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...5&postcount=12

If you do decide to refinish the stock, that faux finish will come off just like the regular finish etc.

Another way to ponder since you don't want to refinish the stock.

I always recommend that when coloring a stock, even with a Gel Stain, that you mess with a piece of scrap wood first AND DON'T DIRECTLY TO THE STOCK!

You can get hobby boards at Lowe's or Home Depot ala:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...89&postcount=3

for under $5 you can get a 1"x3"x3' board and if you tape off 6" sections you have 12 areas to play with. If you use a Gel Stain then Oak is fine.

Of course you could simply create an end piece via paint. Just scuff up the area and slap the Krylon on there.

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 10-03-2017 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:43 AM
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I have used this method for many years. Once the top coat of finish is removed and lightly sanded place the stock in a plastic bag, one of those umbrella bags would be ideal, and crush up some charcoal briquets and place them in the bag with the stock. Let it see in the sealed bag for 3 to 4 days and check to see if the smell has gone away, if not replace the charcoal and repeat. Charcoal has a great ability to absorb odors.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noremf View Post
Pretty poopy with pictures but I would bet the stock is Beech. If so then making it look like walnut via a refinish is easy if that is what you want to do. Even if it is Birch, it does not have the dreaded "foggy" vertical areas like so.



so also not hard to disguise that either.

If it did what you end up with using normal stains or dyes is simply a foggy piece of birch of a different color.

The finish is what is known as a toner topcoat which is a topcoat that is dyed, not stained, to impart an even color and hide small to medium blemishes. In your case it is almost certainly lacquer.

What that means is that the color is in the finish, not the wood as you can clearly see in your 3rd and fourth pictures.

What it also means is that when you remove it, unless you create a new toned topcoat exactly the color of the one on there it will stand out a whole bunch.

Even if you remove the finish say 3" from the end and color it the match will be easy to see unless you have a significant amount of artistic talent.

Those highly noticeable new "blemished" are called witness lines and are created by the chemicals which means you cannot make them invisible.

The dented area around the front swivel can be raised but effectively doing so requires removal of the finish. Topcoat/finishes do not play well with water and really don't with steam or heat.

Again, the smoke smell is in the substrate not the finish so odds on getting it off with any chemical that will not harm that finish are extremely small. Like the odds on you winning the next multi million dollar lottery.

ORIGINAL formula Mineral Spirits, NOT THE GREEN STUFF OR ODORLESS STUFF (There is a sticky on this) will remove the accumulated gunk without harming the finish.

The green stuff and the odorless stuff may or may not remove it but for sure will leave a nasty layer or soap or other junk on the stock that will not only be easy to see but easy to feel.

The rifle does not appear to have any extra ordinary value. Does it have any significant intrinsic value? If so then a refinish will destroy both.

In your case based on you not wanting to refinish and the odds on making the blemishes less noticeable then what you already have you might want to consider a different approach.

That would be to create a faux end piece on the stock.

What you could do to do that would be to tape off say 3 inches from the end at say a 30 or 45 degree angle and then simply scuff of the finish that is on there.

Then using a Gel Stain which is not the same as a normal stain, put some on that area creating what would look like a different piece of end wood.

This post goes over that process and shows how they are used to create faux finishes on a variety of substrates including metal.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...5&postcount=12

If you do decide to refinish the stock, that faux finish will come off just like the regular finish etc.

Another way to ponder since you don't want to refinish the stock.

I always recommend that when coloring a stock, even with a Gel Stain, that you mess with a piece of scrap wood first AND DON'T DIRECTLY TO THE STOCK!

You can get hobby boards at Lowe's or Home Depot ala:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...89&postcount=3

for under $5 you can get a 1"x3"x3' board and if you tape off 6" sections you have 12 areas to play with. If you use a Gel Stain then Oak is fine.

Of course you could simply create an end piece via paint. Just scuff up the area and slap the Krylon on there.

noremf(George)


The gun just has normal value, nothing sentimental or anything special. I am not worried about ruining the value by refinishing the stock. It might not be factory, but it would have more value to ME, with the stock fixed. Iím not sure if I misunderstood you or not about part of what you were saying. However, I have no intention of trying to fix just those places and trying to make the color match. I have decided I would like to do the whole thing and I am grateful for all the info you guys have shared so far. However, I must say Iím still kind of in the dark. I am not an unintelligent individual by any means. However, I know nothing about wood or wood working. I assume stripping everything off is the first step. After that how do I go about fixing the bad spots. The round spot at the swivel might iron out I donít know. I assume the other would have to be filled with something. Also, how do I know what will work on the stock, and look right, since I donít know what wood it is? It should be a factory Marlin, if that helps.


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Old 10-04-2017, 01:20 AM
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Your project

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat14 View Post
The gun just has normal value, nothing sentimental or anything special. I am not worried about ruining the value by refinishing the stock. It might not be factory, but it would have more value to ME, with the stock fixed. Iím not sure if I misunderstood you or not about part of what you were saying. However, I have no intention of trying to fix just those places and trying to make the color match. I have decided I would like to do the whole thing and I am grateful for all the info you guys have shared so far. However, I must say Iím still kind of in the dark. I am not an unintelligent individual by any means. However, I know nothing about wood or wood working. I assume stripping everything off is the first step. After that how do I go about fixing the bad spots. The round spot at the swivel might iron out I donít know. I assume the other would have to be filled with something. Also, how do I know what will work on the stock, and look right, since I donít know what wood it is? It should be a factory Marlin, if that helps.


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Well, since you have decided to refinish it that makes it easier.

Since this is an inexpensive weapon, you don't need to get into restoring it but simply making it look like you want it to look.

Irrespective of any anecdotal statements or what you see on YOUTUBE, figure on 2 weeks CLOCK TIME to do the deed. Labor time is not anywhere near that and you can get a really nice stock prep for less then 4 hours worth of labor.

First off, stock prep before refinishing is THE key to how well the refinishing will end up. The better you do that the better chance you have of presenting the wood at it's best.

Refinishing a stock is not that hard and you are correct that the first step is to remove the current finish. Odds are very high that the current finish is lacquer but never say never.

If you want to make sure then you need to get some lacquer thinner and test the finish out. Since the weapon is an inexpensive one you can, if you want, simply go with a chemical stripper, which will take more coats, save the money from getting the lacquer thinner, and get the finish off.

Many folks like Citrus Strip and others like Jasco Premium Paint Remover ala:

http://www.jasco-help.com/product/pr...-epoxy-remover

They make a number of different "flavors" so make sure you get the one that looks like that. It is much stronger then the Citrus Strip.

When you remove the finish you will be removing the toned topcoat/finish and the color that was used in it. Your stock will then be pretty much as Mother Nature made it.

Once you get the finish stripped you can try and get the dents out using the "steam" method. If you don't know what that is then there are plenty of folks that can describe it.

It is entirely possible that when you use that method, and use it on the "gouges" also that you will lift enough of the fibers that you might be able to simply sand that that whole area smooth.

"Name" of the of game when steaming is to wait at least 4 days for the fibers to dry out completely and settle back into whatever density that they will.

You can steam more then once but if after 3 times the dent's don't come out then they never will.

If not then using a filler is the last choice and unless you want to mix one up yourself using hide glue the filled area will not match the surrounding area. They are made with synthetic adhesives and either sand or small glass or ceramic particles as the filler....neither of which will "take" take a color.

It is at that point and before you color it that you want to smell the stock to see if the smoke odor is gone. Odds are it will be or it will only have a faint odor.

Once you get the stock prepped it is entirely your choice as to whether or not you color it and if so what you want it to look like.

While dyes are better they are tougher to use and since you are saying that you have little or no "woodworking" experience you are probably better off using a pre-mixed stain.

The thing to remember about stains is that they add color with each application so the protocol is to do one application, let it dry for at least 48 hours.....don't force dry it..... and then check it out. You can always darken it with another coat but if you get it too dark it will be a real PIA to make lighter.

Once you got it ready, and again because it is an inexpensive firearm, the choice of topcoat/finishes are yours.

With the exception of Lacquer or clear Shellac all other finishes contain a color cast ranging from a mild yellow to a fairly dark bronze.

This sticky goes over that.

https://rimfirecentral.com/rfcftp/sto...20topcoats.pdf

It is a virus free PDF file in case you want to save it. Takes a bit to load.

The more definitive the color cast is the more it will adversely affect the visual illusion of depth and mute any subtle colors in the wood, assuming you have any to start with.

When it comes to finishes there are as many personal choices as there are ammo choices for your firearm but it is far safer to use one from a recognized chemical coatings "house" then any of the boutique ones you see advertised that have some type of extraordinary or magical properties.

Tru-Oilģ is a real crowd pleaser albeit I do not recommend mixing it with Armor Allģ to make the "miracle elixir" talked about on RFC.

Easy to apply...pretty robust....shiny stuff....pretty strong color cast.

Then there are the poly's. More robust then TO....comes in rattle cans or paint on's.....variety of sheens......milder color casts.

Then there are "wiping varnishes", and don't let the word varnish spook you, that mimic what a plant/vegetable oil product would look like assuming they were worth a poop as a finish in the first place.

Here are some of those.



Easy to apply....can wipe em on....robust....come in a couple of sheens....minimal color cast.

The three main "crowd pleasers" are the MinWaxģ Tung and Antique ones and the Formby's Tung Oil Finish.

I would stay away from the Watco stuff though. If you don't get it on just right it won't set up for a loooooooooooooooong time...if ever.

Finally there is Lacquer. Water clear....more robust then either TO or Poly's... can be repaired without witness lines...tad harder to apply the any of the above and since it is water clear some folks feel it creates a "flat" finish without any "warmth"

Non lacquer synthetic finishes do create that "warmth" though , again because of the color casts in them.

Lacquer creates the best visual illusion of depth and will make the colors in the wood more vibrant.

Again your choice but I would caution you that if folks present photo's of their stocks to demonstrate how the finish they chose and recommend either overtly or covertly, not to let the quality of the stock determine what you end up using.

Highly figured wood will always look better then the wood you have even if the finish is not the best.

As a "newbie" to woodworking I can only add that asking to make sure what can happen BEFORE you do something is the best way to go.

As an example:

Q: "What sanding grit should I use to sand my stock?"

A: "Any grit lower then 400 will leave visible scratch marks that won't show up until you finish the stock. 600 is fine and stuff above that normally is used for higher grade stocks. The black wet/dry automotive paper is far better then the normal silicone sandpaper you get in Lowe's etc."

noremf(George)

PS: As I said, I believe the wood is Beech but it really does not matter. What matters is that whatever wood it is it does not have the dominant "foggy" areas that some Birch has. I would not get all hung up on wood type.
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