More Winchester Magazine Info - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:38 PM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
More Winchester Magazine Info



Log in to see fewer ads
Here is the FINAL DRAFT matrix I put together for pre-64 Winchester .22 magazines applicable to the 52/56/57/69/75. If you downloaded a previous version you can scrap it and copy this corrected revision. I am sure I made a few more errors and omissions and I am looking for feedback from you guys to help me finalize this for posting. Thanks to XLIV for getting the ball rolling.

I took certain liberties as you will note;

- Late 52B's and 52C's were supplied with a solid body SS adapter while concurrently the sheet metal adaptor was available as an extra so I lumped the 69/75 into the sheet metal SS usage since they did not normally come with a SS adapter except for the 69A Match and Target.

- The 69 magazines produced from 1935-circa 1945 should have been specifically marked for the 69 however since I have seen some NIB 69's of that era with 52 style magazine floorplate markings (no "69") I added the 69 to both columns.

- I grouped the rifles by vintage, NOT by sub-model (A,B,C, Target, Sporter etc.) since there is some overlap of production. Basically, if the rifle was produced within the date window it should have the magazine indicated in most cases, regardless of variation or sub-model. To avoid confusion I purposely omitted the sub-model designations from the Winchester model number on the list.

Also, you will note that the Model 69 was chambered for .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle and the magazines formerly dedicated to .22 Long Rifle were also used for the .22 Long commencing with the production of the Model 69 in 1935. All other models continued to utilize the .22 Long Rifle magazine for .22 LR only.

Best Regards,

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg R10 P1.jpg (462.1 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg R10 P2.jpg (449.5 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg R3 P3.jpg (366.2 KB, 43 views)

Last edited by JWA; 08-20-2017 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Fixed the links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:41 PM
22AGS's Avatar
22AGS
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2006
Location: 
south Florida
Posts: 
9,160
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Great stuff, I have never seen any of this info before!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:11 PM
XLIV

Join Date: 
Feb 2005
Location: 
Panhandle Idaho
Posts: 
2,390
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
This is good stuff. The kind of information that will be used for reference for many years to come.

Perhaps new light will be shed on our beloved blue steel and walnut.

One particular observation I made was the floorplate markings on the later mags are turned around. Early mags read front to back and later mags read back to front.

44


Last edited by XLIV; 12-07-2010 at 10:42 PM. Reason: added pic
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:17 PM
Seewin
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2003
Location: 
MO
Posts: 
3,207
TPC Rating: 
100% (59)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWA View Post
Oops, I see an error already, The 52 had an unmarked follower until approx 1925 and the marking of the followers began when the .22 Short magazine was introduced for the 56/57 in 1926.

I'll fix that.
I show a beginning date for the 22 LR follower marking of 8/4/25, and discontinued 8/6/30. Keep in mind these are revision dates to the dwgs. Actual implementation would have been some time after that depending on stock on hand.
steve
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:25 PM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seewin View Post
I show a beginning date for the 22 LR follower marking of 8/4/25, and discontinued 8/6/30. Keep in mind these are revision dates to the dwgs. Actual implementation would have been some time after that depending on stock on hand.
steve
Excellent info, thanks Steve! My notes indicated that Winchester implemented the follower marking just prior to the introduction of the 56 and 57 chambered for .22 short. Internal discussion at Winchester indicated a potential feeding problem if .22 shorts were loaded into a .22 LR magazine so to differentiate when the new models were introduced they began marking the followers. The end date I used was the discontinuation of the model 57 in .22 short. I will revise the chart to indicate your 1930 date which seems more likely.

Thanks for the input!

Regards,
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:29 PM
Seewin
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2003
Location: 
MO
Posts: 
3,207
TPC Rating: 
100% (59)
Here are some of my observations:
1-The patent date was removed from base (revised on drawing) on 7/1/44.
2-I show no markings listed for the follower on the 10 round 22 Long Rifle magazines...ever. Does anyone have a magazine with a "22 Long Rifle" marked follower?
3-The later cast single shot adaptors were made of 2 types of material. From inception until mid 1955 they were diecast zinc. From that date forward they were diecast aluminum.
4-I feel the marked 22 long rifle followers shoud only be listed as used up to late 30 or early 31, since they were revised in August of 1930.
5-The sheet metal followers were introduced mid 1935(A models), not from the beginning of 52 production.
I will be interested to see other's comments concerning the above.
JWA, Thanks for putting all this together. That is one heck of a bunch of work!
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:31 PM
Seewin
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2003
Location: 
MO
Posts: 
3,207
TPC Rating: 
100% (59)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWA View Post
Excellent info, thanks Steve! My notes indicated that Winchester implemented the follower marking just prior to the introduction of the 56 and 57 chambered for .22 short. Internal discussion at Winchester indicated a potential feeding problem if .22 shorts were loaded into a .22 LR magazine so to differentiate when the new models were introduced they began marking the followers. The end date I used was the discontinuation of the model 57 in .22 short. I will revise the chart to indicate your 1930 date which seems more likely.

Thanks for the input!

Regards,
JWA,
Your info could be correct for the 22 short. I do not have blueprints for the short magazine. At least I have not found them yet.
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-07-2010, 11:50 PM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Steve, I have the 1922 patent for the short magazine but not the drawings either. I was just basing it on some old notes I have.

I posted the 1922 "short magazine" patent at the begining of the thread for reference;

Last edited by JWA; 12-13-2010 at 12:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:00 AM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seewin View Post
Here are some of my observations:
1-The patent date was removed from base (revised on drawing) on 7/1/44.

I added the drawing revision date to the notes, thanks!

2-I show no markings listed for the follower on the 10 round 22 Long Rifle magazines...ever. Does anyone have a magazine with a "22 Long Rifle" marked follower?

Excellent question, I don't have one or believe I have ever seen one but it would seem odd to make 2 different followers, unmarked and marked so I put it on the list. I would LOVE if someone could come forward with a marked 10 rd follower.

3-The later cast single shot adaptors were made of 2 types of material. From inception until mid 1955 they were diecast zinc. From that date forward they were diecast aluminum.

Doh! I forgot that piece of info I learned from you awhile back, I'll add the detail - thanks!


4-I feel the marked 22 long rifle followers shoud only be listed as used up to late 30 or early 31, since they were revised in August of 1930.

Yep, I made that change based on your previously posted drawing revision dates.


5-The sheet metal followers were introduced mid 1935(A models), not from the beginning of 52 production.

Are you talking about the single shot adapter follower?


I will be interested to see other's comments concerning the above.
JWA, Thanks for putting all this together. That is one heck of a bunch of work!
Steve

I am also looking forward to some valuable input from you guys to get this piece finalized. Thanks again for all your help!
Regards,

Last edited by JWA; 12-08-2010 at 12:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:03 AM
Seewin
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2003
Location: 
MO
Posts: 
3,207
TPC Rating: 
100% (59)
JWA,
Proof reading is not my forte as you can tell. #5 should read " the sheet metal single shot adaptors were not available until mid 1935(A model).
Also, I found a drawing for the 56-57 22 short follower. It is dated 10-18-20, and is titled as "follower for 5 & 10 capacity", so maybe there were short 10 round mags made with the stamped followers! It shows an inscription stamped into the follower that reads "22 SHORT, PAT FEB 21-22". This was never revised on the drawing. So My assumption is that the 22 short mags were originally intended for the 56-57, not the 52. I had never considered this before. It may be a common assumption to everyone else. I don't know a whole lot or delve into the the 56-57 to the same degree as I do the 52's.
Steve

Last edited by Seewin; 12-08-2010 at 12:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:20 AM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seewin View Post
JWA,
Proof reading is not my forte as you can tell. #5 should read " the sheet metal single shot adaptors were not available until mid 1935(A model).
Steve
Got it! After thinking about it I figured that is what you meant. It is the margarita hour out here for me now also....

I am making that change now for upload.

Again, thanks for your help!

Regards,

Last edited by JWA; 12-08-2010 at 01:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-08-2010, 01:07 AM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLIV View Post
One particular observation I made was the floorplate markings on the later mags are turned around. Early mags read front to back and later mags read back to front.

44
44,

You have excellent powers of observation! I have also noted the 180 deg turning of the Winchester marking when the change was made from the 1919 patent date to the non-patent date style and also wondered about it but have no clue why it was done.

Regards,
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-08-2010, 07:44 AM
wundudnee's Avatar
wundudnee
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Location: 
Auburn, Kansas
Posts: 
767
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I want to extend my thanks to you all for taking some of these topics to the next level. I am awed by the knowledge available from your combined input on these fine old rifles.

I'm not going to try to name all of the valuable contributors, but special thanks have to go to JWA, .22AGS and Seewin.

When I first started to accumulate some of the more obscure Winchester models there wasn't much information to be found, but now with sites like these on the internet, there's so much more.

Again, many thanks
wundudnee
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:10 AM
22AGS's Avatar
22AGS
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2006
Location: 
south Florida
Posts: 
9,160
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Thanks wundudnee, but my contribution to this particular subject is almost nil. I'll say it again about this magazine thread, I've never seen such a wealth of data. I agree fully with XLIV, "This is good stuff. The kind of information that will be used for reference for many years to come."

This is probably a great time to continue the momentum with other seldom-researched Winchester guns and gear, while we have the resources of so many knowledgeable willing and able contributors. Almost a public service!

Last edited by 22AGS; 12-08-2010 at 09:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:49 AM
JWA's Avatar
JWA

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
32,000 ft+
Posts: 
5,243
TPC Rating: 
100% (4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22AGS View Post
Thanks wundudnee, but my contribution to this particular subject is almost nil. I'll say it again about this magazine thread, I've never seen such a wealth of data. I agree fully with XLIV, "This is good stuff. The kind of information that will be used for reference for many years to come."

This is probably a great time to continue the momentum with other seldom-researched Winchester guns and gear, while we have the resources of so many knowledgeable willing and able contributors. Almost a public service!
22AGS is too modest! 22AGS is the "glue" that holds us all together and pushes us to continue our education and share with the group. Without his lively postings I would never have joined RFC and met this group of fine people.

Regards,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x