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Bergara B14-R; How are they shooting?

36K views 143 replies 40 participants last post by  Robison 
#1 ·
I've been kicking around the idea of buying a Bergara B14-R sometime in the future. I've handled both the steel barreled and CF wrapped barreled versions and I had pretty much decided I'd prefer the steel one. Lately I've been reading mixed reports on how they're shooting. IIRC KOD said his CF wrapped B14-R was a great shooter. Since he had the barrel replaced on his steel one I assume it didn't shoot as well as he hoped. I'm now wondering if I should go ahead and spend the extra $100 and get the CF wrapped version. I've been thinking about this for awhile and now I'm thinking that the weight of the CF wrapped one might be more suitable for what I want to use it for too. If they tend to shoot better that would help me to make my decision. I realize these are factory rifles and each one will be a roll of the dice but I won't be happy if I spend $1K on a rifle and it doesn't at least shoot decent ammo under MOA on a regular basis. I have already have a Tikka T1x (among other rifles) and it's starting to look like it's going to be a good shooter. If I don't feel confident the Bergara will shoot at least as well or better than the Tikka I won't waste my time and money on it.

So here's my question for the owners of B14-Rs, which barrel do you have and how are they shooting? Are they performing up to your expectations? Are shooting under MOA with decent ammo?
 
#39 ·
I have two Bergaras a B14 Ridge in 7mm REM MAG and B14 Timber in .270 WIN going on 3 years now. Never had an issue with either. Both still shoot subMOA @ 100 with Barnes TTSX 130 Grain in the 270 Win and Hornady ELD Match 162 Grain in the 7MM REM MAG.

No problems with my barrels either. Missed a Deer once but that was me not the rifle.
 
#40 ·
I can't wait to see how my little tack driver shoots when returned. Those 2" and 3" groups at 100 yards were very impressive. I know I am %%%%%ing, but it is the most expensive .22 I own. My $250 H&R 12, $300 Kimber 82G, $450 CZ455 and $500 10/22 with Feddersen barrel will shoot circles around it. I do regret selling all of my Anschutz rifles I bought at the CMP South store around 2011. Four were 54 actions and one 2007 action. The most I paid for any of them was $500 for the 2007. All had the two stage 3 oz trigger. The most expensive rifle I bought there was $600 for a USMC 40X.
 
#41 ·
I have to admit I'm a little leary after reading some of these posts. I wouldn't be too concerned but it doesn't sound like Bergara's CS in Georgia is willing to stand by the rifles they're selling. 3/4" at 50 yds is a pretty low standard. I can do that with any bolt-action I own. Even my Kimber 82G will do that and I wasn't too thrilled with it the few times I've shot it.

IF I do decide to buy a B14-R it sounds like I might have a little better chance of getting a good shooter by going with the CF barrel. I'm also tempted to bring my Teslong borescope into the store and ask if I can inspect the chamber and bore before buying. Not sure they'd let me do that though. I might be smart to wait on this one to see if they get the problems sorted out. I have other rifles that I need to put more ammo through anyway including the previously mentioned 82G
 
#43 ·
I have to admit I'm a little leary after reading some of these posts. I wouldn't be too concerned but it doesn't sound like Bergara's CS in Georgia is willing to stand by the rifles they're selling. 3/4" at 50 yds is a pretty low standard. I can do that with any bolt-action I own. Even my Kimber 82G will do that and I wasn't too thrilled with it the few times I've shot it.

IF I do decide to buy a B14-R it sounds like I might have a little better chance of getting a good shooter by going with the CF barrel. I'm also tempted to bring my Teslong borescope into the store and ask if I can inspect the chamber and bore before buying. Not sure they'd let me do that though. I might be smart to wait on this one to see if they get the problems sorted out. I have other rifles that I need to put more ammo through anyway including the previously mentioned 82G
My advice to you would be to buy something else. Anschutz MPRs are on sale now. They will shoot circles around my Bergara. My old H&R 12 will also, not to mention my 82G. Some of the Bergaras shoot really well. Some group like a shotgun. Too much hit or miss for me.
 
#45 ·
Can I afford a Voodoo? Not an issue. I would not pay $2,800 for one. You can build a really nice rifle that will shoot circles around a Voodoo for that kind of money. A friend showed me several targets he had shot with his Lonestar action and 4 groove Shilen Ratchet barrel. Five 5 shot groups that were almost one hole. Told him those were really nice 50 yd groups. His comment was they were shot at 100 yds with Center-X.
 
#46 ·
Thanks Joe, I've been around awhile and I'm well aware of the possibilities. Building a custom BR rig can be a toss up too. Anyway, I'm no longer interested in a BR rig. I do like shooting BR cards but don't want a dedicated BR rifle at this point in my life. What I'm interested in is a really accurate repeater for PRS style shooting. I've reading about some of the design details of the Vudoo V22 and I like what I've been reading. It's honestly above my pay grade but I could swing it if I really wanted to. Despite hearing about your troubles I'll probably still give one a go at some point but again, not rushing out to buy one yet. I still have too many other rifles to wring out first.
 
#50 · (Edited)
I guess I missed where anyone got butt hurt and kicked you out. I don't own a B14-R. So I'm definitely not an enthusiast. I asked how they're shooting. You answered with your honest experience. I see no harm in that. If people don't like what you had to say about your personal experience they can go read another thread. Thanks again for your input
 
#51 ·
Thing is I don't have too many. It might be more than some folks have but I'm sure it's way less than a lot of you guys. Most are keepers for me and not going anywhere. The few I have that I might be willing to sell are (IMO) cool old rifles that I bought years ago and fixed up. They're not really worth much and I keep them around because I like 'em. If I sent you a list of what I have I think you'd understand. Besides, I haven't sold one in 30+ years I've been more seriously interested in 22's. Not sure I want to start now.

However, I do have a pretty sizeable knife collection that could easily fund that V22. I may choose to go that route or I might just keep saving my lunch money. I'm going to shoot my T1x for a few matches this spring and see how it does and how much I enjoy that type of shooting. I have the feeling I'll really like it but no sense going all in until I have some experience
 
#53 ·
Okay after I built a Kidd 10-22 I decided I wanted a target grade bolt gun. I have a really nice 513-T but there just isn't much you can do with the trigger. The compatibility with the Model 700 appealed to me. I started hearing about the Bergara and when a friend of a friend bought a Bergara and was impressed I decide to pick one up.

I am thoroughly satisfied. I only test with 10 shot groups. My largest and first was .743" and I got used to the trigger and had a .542", .473", and .445, and .424" was my best. I have not used any ammo better than SK Pistol Match Special and now shoot Eley Target. My 10 shot 100 yard groups are typically around 1.25" and I have not shot a 100 yard group under an inch yet. I can afford better ammo if I wanted to, but it goes against my nature to spend much more that $6.50 a box.

I regularly shoot it out to 300 yards and intend to replace the trigger eventually, though the trigger is not bad as is. I am not a skilled bench rest shooter and struggle to improve my technique. My first love is offhand shooting and the only thing other than the trigger I would change with my Bergara would be to have a 24" barrel.
 
#55 ·
I bought two in February and both shoot well. I put a Jewell trigger in one because the stock trigger would not go below 2.75 pounds. I'm satisfied with my purchase and I can be pretty tight on the "bang for the buck". I have rifles that will shoot better but they cost more. Comparing the MSRP of a new production rifle to the CMP used market of target rifles is apples and oranges. The big value in the B-14r is the multitude of accessories you can buy due to the 700sa footprint.
 
#58 ·
That is funny, When I received mine I took the action out of the stock before I even shot it to lower the trigger weight as low as it would go. When I made the adjustment and put it back in the stock I put the action screws in at 18 inch Lbs and started shooting with Eley Club. The thing shoots so good on 18 inch Lbs I did not bother going any higher.The first ammo that I tried shot lights out. Never happened like that for me before.
 
#59 ·
I was getting a lot of vertical stringing with some very good ammo. I was trying to figure out where the movement was coming from that would give me an inch of vertical dispersion at 50 yards. Tightening things up seems to have helped. Glad yours is shooting well though. And I agree that the smeared lede isn't the end of the world. Lucky for me. :thumb:

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
#60 ·
I received mine back from Bergara Tuesday. Their "gunsmith" re-cut the crown. 50 yard test target was shot 5 rounds of SK Rifle Match. One round was a flyer out of the 5 shots. Group opened up to .381" Remove the flyer and it's a .245" group. I am waiting for a calm day to try it at 100 yds. OTOH I may take to a friend's 100 yd indoor range to test.
 
#64 ·
I've built myself a few high-end repeaters on Stiller 2500XR, 40X&XB, V-22, and RimX actions over the past 4yrs. I really liked the Stiller, but then that was the very 1st 22RF that I'd done the bbl work on, so it was kind of special to me. I had Jonathan Elrod convert 40X & 40XB actions to repeaters that used the Vudoo 10rd poly mags, and was very, very pleased with both after I used a Benchmark 3-groove & Lilja titebore bbls chambered with my EPS reamer on them. Then I did a Krieger bbl for the 1st V-22 action I purchased, and a Bartlein for the RimX. I believe it's more than fair to say that I'm spoiled by the accuracy of quality custom barrels chambered with a match reamer. I've bought three CZ457s (American, Varmint MTR, Varmint Precision Trainer), and wound up rebarreling all but the MTR with Shilen ratchet rifled blanks.

Point is, if I were to buy a Bergara 14R out of curiosity, and was satisfied with the quality of the action, I wouldn't hesitate to rebarrel it with a custom barrel that I'd chambered with a match reamer if the factory bbl didn't shoot well enough to suit my needs. The CZ457 actions were very attractive, functional, reliable - and I was very pleased with the new fully adjustable triggers on them. Otherwise, I'd have peddled them instead of investing in Shilen blanks and taking the time to rebarrel. I doubt very, very seriously if Bergara would ever have brought their 14R to market if it weren't for the success Vudoo has had with their excellent V-22 rifles. It's pretty obvious that Bergara can't turn out a rifle of comparable quality to the V-22 at their price point, and the experiences of some of the guys here who've bought 14Rs reflects where they had to cut costs - the barrel & quality of chambering. I haven't done any research on aftermarket bbls for the Bergaras, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there are some available for it by this point in time, especially given the issues some owners have had with their OEM bbls.
 
#65 ·
It appears that the re-cut crown cured my accuracy issues. The rifle loves SK Rifle Match, Long Range, Biathlon and Center-X. Hates Eley. Will try some more groups after re-installing the Shilen Match trigger. I wish I could increase the pull weight a touch as 3 oz is as high as I could adjust it. Shilen says it should go up to 6 oz.
 
#68 ·
If you want to talk about rifle accuracies sub 1 moa, you need to isolate those factors that are outside the rifle. The three most important are ammo, wind and the shooter.

Any time you shoot at 100yds outdoors even a slight breeze can be a factor with 22lr and may cause an outlier. Likewise, unless you are shooting from a vise with a trigger pull you have to look at the shooter. Even a slight variance in poa or sight alignment, even using a crosshairs can take the poi off by enough to ruin a group.

Ammo is likely as least as significant. Differences lot to lot can move the poi.

In engineering there is a term called tolerance stack which simply means while all factors can be 'in spec' with a slight variation from the spec in several areas can, when added together, create an 'out of spec' end result.

It takes a lot of testing, eliminating as many variables as possible before blaming the rifle for poor accuracy. Although oftentimes manufacturers will place an unfair accuracy burden on their rifles by touting unrealistic accuracy claims that can't ,consistently, be achieved.
 
#69 ·
If you want to talk about rifle accuracies sub 1 moa, you need to isolate those factors that are outside the rifle. The three most important are ammo, wind and the shooter.

Any time you shoot at 100yds outdoors even a slight breeze can be a factor with 22lr and may cause an outlier. Likewise, unless you are shooting from a vise with a trigger pull you have to look at the shooter. Even a slight variance in poa or sight alignment, even using a crosshairs can take the poi off by enough to ruin a group.

Ammo is likely as least as significant. Differences lot to lot can move the poi.

In engineering there is a term called tolerance stack which simply means while all factors can be 'in spec' with a slight variation from the spec in several areas can, when added together, create an 'out of spec' end result.

It takes a lot of testing, eliminating as many variables as possible before blaming the rifle for poor accuracy. Although oftentimes manufacturers will place an unfair accuracy burden on their rifles by touting unrealistic accuracy claims that can't ,consistently, be achieved.
:bthumb: I think that's all understood by most of those who've participated in this thread. I guess it doesn't hurt to post a reminder though
 
#72 ·
Do any top 3P rifles such as Bleiker or G&E need accuracy guarantees? Anschutz, Walther and FWB don't publish accuracy guarantees. To be sure, some .22LR rifles have them, such as Cooper. Even CZ has an accuracy guarantee of sorts with the 457 MTR and other CZ match chambered models.

Nevertheless, many shooters will be aware that where guarantees such as these are offered, they have the caveat that results will be dependent on the ammunition used. Anyone using a high end match rifle knows that, despite the assurance that comes with the name of a top level match rifle that the barrel is of excellent quality, even a Bleiker can't outshoot the ammo it's given.

When it comes to mass produced rifles not intended to compete with top quality match rifles, rifles made by manufacturers such as Bergara and CZ don't have that assurance that the barrels are all necessarily of equal or top quality. Some will be better shooters than others. There's no way to know until the rifle is put to the test.
 
#75 ·
My B14r shoots well., better than me. I can get a .25 group @ 50 but that is not the rule. Shot from a Caldwell Rock with rear bag using a 8-32scope. Out of a target with six bulls the groups will usually run from .35-.75. Just like my Winchester 52 Pre A slow lock with a Lyman 20x. I’ve shot tighter groups with the Bergara, which I attribute to a 1lb. trigger vs. a 3# trigger and a stock that just rides the bags better. I have to work on shooting Bergara better. Shooting is always a work in progress no mater the gun.
 
#76 ·
MOA guarantees are just a marketing gimmick that has caught on in the last few years. What are you going to do if it doesn't shoot as guaranteed? Send it back? They will just send it back to you and tell you that it did shoot as guaranteed with the right ammo and in a windless tunnel range by a championship shooter. This is why Bleiker, Anschutz and others don't waste anybody's time with such guarantees. Like most other things in life, the more you pay for a quality item, the better it is likely to be. Sure, there are some "bang for the buck" exceptions to the rule but that is like winning the lottery.
 
#78 ·
I won't out either company, but before I transferred to the east coast, I lived about 20 miles from one high end custom gun maker and about 50 miles from another manufacturer that made precision rifles for both civilian and law enforcement users. Both companies had a "1/2 MOA" guarantee. Both of them defined it more or less as a 1/2 MOA three shot group at 100 yards.

Both companies also used our club range when their indoor ranges were down for maintenance. They used our range as it was surrounded by high terrain on 3 sides and wind was rarely a factor at 100 yards.

What I saw when they shot was enlightening about the value of a "1/2 MOA" guarantee.

The shooter would show up with several rifles and would staple several targets on the target backer. He'd then shoot a three shot group from each rifle at its assigned target.

Out of a dozen or so rifles there would usually be 2-3 rifles that would achieve the required three shot, 1/2 MOA group on the first attempt. The shooter would box those up with the target and then shoot the other 9-10 rifles out of the initial dozen again. Most of the rifles would produce a 3 shot, 1/2 MOA group after 3 or 4 attempts. There would usually be 1 or 2 however that would not, and the shooter would then usually check the torque on the stock screws, confirm the barrel was free floated etc, and if it still would not produce a 3 shot 1/2 MOA group, he'd take it back to the factory for more in depth attention. Those would be sent out a second time for testing on the next range trip, and every range trip usually had 1-2 rifles that were back for a second attempt after some factory reworking.

There would also usually be a rifle that was a customer return due to an accuracy complaint. That returned rifle would get the same test protocol and if it managed a 3 shot 1/2 MOA group in 3 or 4 attempts, it would be sent back to the customer with a new test target. It would also have the stock screw torque checked or adjusted, and if that resulted in a suitable target it would again be sent back.

------

My impressions and take-aways from observing those tests are as follows:

1) A single 3 shot 1/2 MOA group doesn't make a rifle a "1/2 MOA rifle", even if it's achieved on the first attempt. It certainly isn't a 1/2 MOA rifle if it takes several attempts to get a 1/2 MOA group.

2) Personally, I think anything less than a 5 shot group is a waste of time, and I also want to see a fairly high confidence level that it'll produce a group at any given time. I don't expect to see it every time, but 2 out of 3 is about the minimum.

3) Most of those "1/2 MOA" rifles were probably pretty solid "1 MOA rifles" based on the targets I saw and the statistical distribution of the groups on those targets.

4) Despite selling what were arguably 1 MOA rifles rather than the advertised 1/2 MOA rifles, neither company had many returns.

In the case of the high end custom gun maker, that wasn't a surprise as they were more gun art than guns intended for practical use, and I suspect most of the buyers had more money than skill and would probably blame a lack of consistent 1/2 MOA groups on their ability, not the quality of the rifle.

In the case of the precision rifle company, the return rate still appeared to be low. Again, the shooters may have regarded themselves as the limiting factor. Alternatively, since many of these went to police departments, they may have addressed any accuracy issues, with their own local armorers. Then again, solid 1 MOA accuracy may have been more than sufficient, given the average police sniper engagement is around 75 yards year in and year out and it's extremely rare to see one over 300 yards.

-----

My conclusion was that the 3 round, 1/2 MOA guarantee was both meaningless and just marketing hype.

To be fair however, with the rise in "long range" precision shooting and the corresponding increase in so called "long range" or "precision" shooters the accuracy claims by many of those shooters are usually just as meaningless.

I often see shooters who will show a three round group on a steel plate that was claimed to be at 1000 or so yards that may be anywhere from 3" to 6" in diameter, with the shooter claiming they can shoot 1/4 or 1/2 MOA at 1000 or so yards.

What doesn't get mentioned is the half dozen shots it may have taken the shooter to get the first round on target, or the vast majority of other groups fired that same day that were nowhere near that level of accuracy.

In other words, the bar as fallen to where many shooters seem to mistake a low frequency, third standard deviation, right hand tail group represents an average level of accuracy.
 
#79 ·
.2255. That's the diameter of a 22lr bullet hole. Put two holes side by side and you've pretty much used up your MOA at 50 yards.

How many rigs (rifle, scope, bipod) under $5,000 can fire 100 rounds and have 90 hit within a half inch? If you have one, you hit the lottery.

Top level competitors wouldn't be spending $3-5000 on a rifle if you had any real chance of scoring a gun that can hit with that accuracy at mass market prices.

This type of discussion reminds me of a story I read a long time ago. It was written by Samuel Clemens and was entitled, IIRC, "The Literary Excesses of James Fenimore Cooper". Cooper wrote "Leather Stocking Tales", "Last of the Mohicans" and many other titles. He wrote about life in the colonies. He wrote in the early 1800s.

Anyway, more to the point, the hero in his stories Natty Bumppo, could shoot off a gnat's nuts at 100 yards with black powder rifle of the day. And he could do it shot after shot, as he demonstrated time and again in different situations.

And people believed this stuff and the gun manufacturers, I'm sure, promoted the notion. So there's not much new here. I'm sure the Chinese guy who invented black powder stuck a rock in a bamboo pole with some black powder behind it and claimed he could hit a bug at 100 yards, too.
 
#80 ·
.2255. That's the diameter of a 22lr bullet hole. Put two holes side by side and you've pretty much used up your MOA at 50 yards.
Unless shooting through something like aluminum foil, the hole in a target paper resulting from a .22LR bullet will be somewhat smaller than the bullet's diameter. Depending on the paper used, it is typically between .20" (sometimes even a little less) and .21".
 
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