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Older T-Bolt Questions

5K views 37 replies 10 participants last post by  Kleiss1 
#1 ·
Howdy Gents,
I also have another question regarding the serial number on a Belgium made Grade 2 T-Bolt that I bought in Dec., 1985, serial #X710003?. What prompted me to have a closer look at mine was the mention of salt-wood T-Bolt stocks in another recent thread. In all these years I had never taken my metal out of the stock to check it out, so I did just that for a look/see. No salt corrosion, thankfully, due to it probably being of later 1971 production, I believe.

I really didn't know when my rifle was made, so I decided to look it up. That is when I noticed a difference in how the two web sites say the serial number is represented and how my serial number appears. On both web sites, given on this forum for Browning dates of manufacture look up, they indicate that the two digit year comes first, then the Model code (X for T-Bolt) and then (from Proofhouse.com) a 5 digit serial number:

68 to 1975 - The last two digits of the year was used,

Example: Serial number 69B12345:

69 = Year of manufacture (1969)
C = Model (should read B to fit the example)
12345 = Serial number

Browning's web site's verbal description says the same thing about the 2 digit date code, but after that the 4 digit type code mentioned doesn't make any sense and my serial number certainly doesn't start with 1000 if my 1 is part of the year, and if it did that would suggest that the serial number part was only 4 digits:

1969-75 In 1969 Browning started using two digits for the date of manufacture which was followed by a four digit code that identified the type of Auto-5:
X=T-Bolt 22
This was then followed by the serial number beginning with 1000.
Example: 69X1000 = A 1969 T-Bolt 22 rifle with a serial number of 1000.
X=T-Bolt 22

What I take away from this is that my T-Bolt rifle was less than the 40th one made in 1971, despite the X code coming before the date and serial number. Has anyone else noted this discrepancy before for T-Bolts, or any other Browning models? Are the two web sites wrong, if not a bit misleading in Browning's case, or for whatever reason do I have a most unusual serial number? Any clarity would be appreciated! Thank you in advance!
 

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#26 ·
$77.50 for an original T-2 Nail Driver

I soooo want a T Bolt.:)
Nice close ups.:bthumb:
I did like my T-2, it was a compact rifle much the same as I'd say the semi-auto is. Good if you like easy portability for the squirrel woods. I owned it for around 25 years and IIRC it was marked Morgan Utah. I happily never saw any signs of "salt wood" . The walnut was of very decent grade! :)

 
#3 · (Edited)
Based on my long history of Brownings, I think the serial number should have been stamped starting with 71X. Being a first day of 1971 production, probably a factory boo-boo that was soon rectified.

btw, X was later used as a suffix, but meant something entirely different at that time.(1978-1980 "parts guns")

The Browning site does contain some wrong information. The four digit type code applies to later Japanese products.
 
#4 ·
As Camster has pointed out, there were mistakes made I doubt any manufacturer would list a serial number for an incorrectly stamped firearm. Most likely in 1971/later, the salt issue had long been identified and addressed. Anytime at on-site auction I see a t-Bolt, I ask to have the butt plate screws removed. Easy to do, if they won't I would pass. Was at a live auction several years ago and inquired. The onsite expert "gunsmith" didn't know what I was talking about. Agreed to look at the buttplate screws..could barely remove them and they were loaded with rust. No interest on my part..sad thing was after disclosure to them they did not disclose at the auction. Maybe their consignor would not have appreciated that. Lesson learned thanks to RFC.
 
#9 ·
I used to own a T2 from very late 60's to very early 70's. I never had any idea of salt wood until I started reading RFC. That wasn't my first 22 but it was my first "Finely crafted" 22.

I have a question....You guys certainly know much more about about Old Belgian Browning T Bolts than me. My question is about the wood. Was the wood on a T1 and T2 the same, Walnut? I believe the T2 had the nicer wood and was lacquer finished correct?

I ask because I see that somewhere along the line they? T1 perhaps? Came with wood other than Walnut?
 
#18 ·
This is a salt wood rifle...



first indication





Things are stable for now, I keep it cleaned and waxed and no further damage, I bought it used at a very discounted price (less than a new Ruger 10/22 DSP at the time, a good bit less). I love how it shoots and handles, the salt damage just is what it is.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the pictures.

It is my understanding that the need for good walnut was so great that the furniture industry has used the salt curing method for years. Gun makers decided to try this method without thinking about the salt corroding the steel that was always next to it.

The damage was so widespread and severe that I think this was the issue that almost broke the Browning company and caused the situation where FN bought them.
Amongst the "T" Bolt only? Never really heard anything about their Belgian SA's for instance?
 
#25 ·
According to.........

Ned Schwing's "Browning Superposed" book (Krause Press, 1996). In the mid '60s Browning needed a better supply of high grade walnut for it's guns. A California contractor had a large inventory of good walnut taken from clearing power line right of ways. Demand for Browning guns was at an all time high and the usual kiln drying process for walnut was too slow to produce what was needed. Rapid kiln drying also produced cracks in the California walnut.

Morton Salt had developed a salt solution drying process successfully used in the furniture industry with good results. This cured the walnut much faster than the kiln method. Browning tested it and there were no problems, so Browning bought the process in 1965. "In an area roughly the size of a football field, five-foot by five-foot by eight-foot stacks of stock blanks were covered with salt. The salt was supposed to leach out the moisture and dry the wood quickly. The process did accomplish its purpose but the moisture that was drawn out of the blanks on top of the stacks ran down into the blanks below, resulting in a brine solution that soaked the lower wood blanks." (Schwing, pp 246) The retained salt reacted with the gun metal with the finished stock was installed. This caused the rust associated with "the salt wood problem".

According to Schwing's interviews with Browning's Harm Williams and Val Browning, all the salt curing was done in the US and affected at least 90% of all Browning stocks from made from 1967 to 1969. The problem continued to show up until 1972, but in smaller numbers. It was then that the entire supply of walnut blanks was burned and replaced with traditional kiln dried wood.

To detect salt wood on 1966 to 1972 guns, first check for outward appearance of dark or discolored spots. Check every place that wood meets metal, as on the rear of the forend and at the head of the stock. Rust on the metal will be apparent if there is a problem. According to Schwing, the definitive test is to remove the butt pad/plate, scrape away a little wood from the exposed butt and apply a 1% solution of silver nitrate to the fresh wood. If the silver nitrate remains light purple, there is no salt. If the silver nitrate turns white, you have a salt gun.

If you can prove that you are the original owner of the salt gun, Browning used to replace the wood for free and will probably still do so. If you bought the gun used, you are on your own. I got a used Superposed 410 with salt wood about ten or twelve years ago. Browning charged me about $250, if memory serves, to replace the wood. It wasn't free, but it was certainly a bargain price. I don't know what the numbers today are.

Browning wasn't the only one to get taken in by the salt wood walnut curing process. Some other gun companies did also, but weren't quite as up front about dealing with it.
 
#27 ·
I had the chance to buy two NIB T-2 rifles in the late 1970s for $300 each and the were consecutive serial numbers. I didn’t do it and I kicked myself for years for not buying them. Then I found out that most of them had salt wood and I’m glad I didn’t buy them. $300 was a lot of money back then.
 
#29 ·
I had the chance to buy two NIB T-2 rifles in the late 1970s for $300 each and the were consecutive serial numbers. I didn't do it and I kicked myself for years for not buying them. Then I found out that most of them had salt wood and I'm glad I didn't buy them. $300 was a lot of money back then.
That was the number back then. I remember selling a NIB 1973 T2 with a select pallet wood stock for $325 circa 1983, and adding 200 bucks to that and buying a new Anschutz 1422. A no brainer for sure.
 
#28 ·
Wouldn't one be able to seal the stocks action/barrel channel of a salt wood gun? Most of the areas normally covered/hidden from sight don't get the best coverage when sprayed with finish.

If salt wood was known to exist couldn't a thinned out finish be brushed on to "ALL" the internal wood surfaces in say two coats thereby soaking /sealing those rougher cut and end grain surfaces disallowing moisture to draw anymore salt out, without affecting the guns barrel - channel fit, or its exterior appearance?

Although maybe not necessary at this point as added insurance I'd apply a coat of Cosmoline (with care for the trigger group) to the under body/hidden areas of the rifle. The only Cosmoline (made by original manufacture) available today is a thin liquid.
 
#30 ·
Wouldn't one be able to seal the stocks action/barrel channel of a salt wood gun? Most of the areas normally covered/hidden from sight don't get the best coverage when sprayed with finish.

If salt wood was known to exist couldn't a thinned out finish be brushed on to "ALL" the internal wood surfaces in say two coats thereby soaking /sealing those rougher cut and end grain surfaces disallowing moisture to draw anymore salt out, without affecting the guns barrel - channel fit, or its exterior appearance?

Although maybe not necessary at this point as added insurance I'd apply a coat of Cosmoline (with care for the trigger group) to the under body/hidden areas of the rifle. The only Cosmoline (made by original manufacture) available today is a thin liquid.
People have tried sealing the salt wood stocks for decades. Rarely does it work. Remember, there are different amounts of salt in salt wood stocks. Check out Art's Gun Shop videos on YouTube. He is one of the best experts. He recommends using salt wood stocks for firewood.
 
#31 ·
Thank you M2HB, :bthumb: I watched two of Art's salt wood videos. One showed a Superposed that had a large amount of salt contamination and it really ate up not only the metal but also the varnish. If one is that bad a person may surely be out of luck? I guess I'd still "try", "marine grade varnish" if I was unlucky enough to own one with lesser salt. I also watched an Art's Gun Shop video on the A5 that was very interesting as well!
And a long documentary on John Moses Browning. Keeping in line with "22" rimfire he came from a family of "22" children! :eek: :D An article in Gun Digest I recently read said 21 children although they may have omitted the passing away of a girl during child birth?

I wanted to mention that the badly salted Superposed reminded me of a gun show gun that I thought at the time must have been treated like garbage by its former owner? Now having seen the degraded Superposed this gives a whole new perspective on some of these gun show guns that look like they were left overnight in the duck skiff while it was raining too many times. :(

Yes, Camster the salt wood Diana grade Superposed or Olympian grade high power rifle.....I totally agree, very very sad!
 
#32 ·
NIB asked a question up in post #9 of this thread:
I have a question....You guys certainly know much more about about Old Belgian Browning T Bolts than me. My question is about the wood. Was the wood on a T1 and T2 the same, Walnut? I believe the T2 had the nicer wood and was lacquer finished correct?
I believe that you are correct, NIB. I had read somewhere, likely in one of the threads on this forum, that the early T1's had plain walnut stocks and had a dull Linseed oil finish, and that the T2's had better grade walnut stocks, 4 panel checkering and were finished in Browning's sprayed-on characteristic hi-gloss lacquer finish. I am adding a photo of my T2's buttstock area, note the small area of fiddleback in the toe. The T1's I have seen at gun shows over the years all had pretty plain walnut stocks with dull looking finishes.
 

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#33 ·
Thank you Clinton,

Little story....I once lost a peep sight screw to my old T-Bolt and was pretty bummed out about it. One day while out and about shooting, my father and I stopped at a "very" small town gun store about 25 miles from home and the guy running the shop had what looked to be the exact same screw...I couldn't believe it! That was a great moment!

Your picture reminds me that I should never have sold the old T-Bolt. But at the time I was in need of some extra cash. :(
 
#35 ·
Quoting NIB:
If you can prove that you are the original owner of the salt gun, Browning used to replace the wood for free and will probably still do so. If you bought the gun used, you are on your own. I got a used Superposed 410 with salt wood about ten or twelve years ago. Browning charged me about $250, if memory serves, to replace the wood. It wasn't free, but it was certainly a bargain price. I don't know what the numbers today are.

They might still offer some help with the Superposed, as it came with a lifetime guarantee, but all of the rest are on their own.
 
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