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Some advice for a 10/22

3K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  oldshot50 
#1 ·
I am seeing some inconsistencies, I can chalk some of it up to ammo, but i don't think even Winchester 333 white box can be this crappy.
Also this is on my first 10/22 so it is completely possible that i messed something up.

I am getting intermittent light strikes, i can go 3 mags with no issue then go every other round where i have light strikes for a mag. And most of the time if I inspect the rounds that didnt fire, they don't look like the pin hit the back of the casing, retry and it works fine.
The other issue is much less common, but sometimes i see feed jams, where the angle is aimed up too high and it is jamming against the barrel.

I have a Tactical innovations receiver and a KIDD 20 inch .920 fluted barrel. And I am using Ruger BX10 rotary magazines, but I did notice they have some play when installed, they can wiggle front to back and side to so


The more I think about it i wonder if this could be a mag issue. Can magazines cause these issues?

I will get some pics added later, as I don't have them on my PC yet. 1 pic is from the light strikes, and one is from the damage on the bullets from the feeding error.

Thanks for your time everyone.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
How many rounds thru the barrel? Have you scrubbed the Chamber? I mean SCRUB and just the chamber.. not so much the bore...
The 1st thing is to know/understand that the tight KIDD chamber will carbon up quiker than a OEM which is sloppy loose.

This is your friend : https://gunsmithertools.com/shop/ols/products/xn-brush-n-mop-chamber-tool-gl1p

Buy one... scrub with the Brush wet with Hoppes#9 .. back and forth and as much as you can rotate as well.. then wet the mop and do the same... then use a BoreSnake with some Hoppes#9 on the brush area.. run it 3 times to clear all the carbon.

Then clean the inside of the Receiver real good and lube all metal to metal with:



After everything is clean spray on the Hornady One Shot DRY lube and let it dry.. do not wipe... ALL metal to metal surfaces including the bolt and charging handle/spring etc. - this Horn. One Shot is exactly what works on the 10/22 platform... makes cleaning a breeze too.. no MUDD!

This may seem like Voodoo to Newbies.. but it's not and I have brought back many with your issues to near 100%.
Now.. Win. white box is really dirty ammo and really inconsistent as far as accuracy goes... good ammo is tuff to find these days but Aguila ammo seems available and is real decent for the money.. as soon as CCI Std. Velocity is available buy some to try.. it's poor mans bench grade ammo ;) And ANY CCI is better that what you are shooting..much... just don't buy Stingers.

One other thing.. make sure to scrub/clean your magazines.. mostly at the feed lip area... and ONLY use OEM mags.

With a clean Chamber and well lubed/with the Dry Lube you should be cured of the light strikes AND your feed issues.
With good/better ammo and that KIDD barrel you should be at or close to .50 net 3 shot groups at 50 yds. - all mine are sub-MOA.. but I shoot good ammo.. never Winchester or Remington.. ever.


 
#3 ·
OK, I didn't know they were THAT much tighter, I will get it cleaned.

I know that Winchester is crap but its what i got for the moment, and i have had a heck of a time finding ANY ammo in California. I actually got a big brick of it a couple years ago when it was the first 22 ammo id seen in a while and it wasn't up there in cost with normal ammo. Some CCI is on the horizon when i can see some.

That is a cool tool, I will definitely get it, thanks.

Why will a fouled chamber cause a light strike, im not arguing, just trying to understand.

For lubing the magazine, use one shot in them as well, or just Rem Oil like in my AK and 1911 Mags?
 
#4 · (Edited)
OK, I didn't know they were THAT much tighter, I will get it cleaned.

I know that Winchester is crap but its what i got for the moment, and i have had a heck of a time finding ANY ammo in California. I actually got a big brick of it a couple years ago when it was the first 22 ammo id seen in a while and it wasn't up there in cost with normal ammo. Some CCI is on the horizon when i can see some.

That is a cool tool, I will definitely get it, thanks.

Why will a fouled chamber cause a light strike, im not arguing, just trying to understand.

For lubing the magazine, use one shot in them as well, or just Rem Oil like in my AK and 1911 Mags?
Save that Rem Oil for something that likes it.. NOT for a 10/22!
There is some science to the light strikes in a dirty chamber.. the 1st time it loosens some of the carbon and pushes it forward.. so likely a 2nd strike will work.. but all that is very inconstant. On the 1st strike it's so tight that the round does NOT fully go into battery and with the Hammer/FP strike it pushes it fully into battery and absorbs the FP strike somewhat.. just enough to not get a detonation... intertia.. it's a bidch sometimes... Proof will be after getting it scrubbed and that dreaded carbon ring cleaned out... and also good Dry Lube.;)
 
#5 ·
WOW, that is what I had used on it before, was Rem Oil. I am a long term shooter but with a fairly narrow frame of reference, as a kid i shot my uncles stock 10/22 but I never maintained it. Most of my rifles with the exception of a couple things are WW1 era bolt guns, Hoppes#9, and the Hoppes lube or Rem Oil and they are happy, I had no idea a 10/22 was that particular.

One Shot in the mags too, OK, that works. I ordered both the brush you linked and the one shot, should be here late this week early next week.

Oh ok, so there is crap in the way, but thin enough to go into battery, but the pin basically pushes the round through the carbon rather than actually firing it? Something like that?

I am really hoping this is all it is, id much rather think i just need a thorough cleaning, and not something I did in the building.

Any other helpful tips for a shooter who is a major 10/22 noob?
 
#8 ·
1. Every thing that Chaser says.
2. Put numbers on your magazines, so yo can see if one is the source of your problems.
3. What bolt are you using, if oem, you might consider pining the firing pin so there is no vertical rise.
4. What trigger group are you using, check the magazine plunger it may not be holding the mags firm enough. Stretch the spring, or buy a kidd part.

And never buy crap ammo again. Its just frustrating.
 
#10 ·
@Chaser
How much time i got, as much as you want to spend on me. Loving the info so far.

@effyguy
Thanks for the link, ill dig into it

@Toomany22s
First, in reference to your name, no, no you don, cant. Cant have too many guns of any type, 22's, mausers, ak's, old school lever guns,. none of it, cant have too many!
1) Yup, treating everything he said here so far as gospel as it sounds like solid advice.
2) Good idea, i was thinking that.
Regarding mags, how often do they need to be fully disassembled for deep cleaning?
3) I have a KIDD barrel, and most everything else is from tactical innovations.
Do you have a link to a tutorial, illustrated guide, video or something to reference on pining the firing pin?
4) Still tactical innovations.
Which spring exactly should I stretch?
I assume that the mag should not be able to wiggle in the magwell?

Honestly that ammo fires fine in my pump and old bolt gun. I had used some CCI way back when in my old bolt action and the groups were better, but overall it FUNCTIONED well, but seeing this, it will definitely stay with my old manual action 22's until the supply is exhausted.
Without a fixture like a lead sled or something similar/better i dont expect the overlapping holes as my hand shakes, it got broke really REALLY bad a long time ago, get some stiffness, numbness and it shakes, not terribly but some. With my mauser i can hit the steel sheep and boar targets reliably at 600, but not with a great group, and certainly not good enough to hunt humanely, so if the better parts allow me to reliably keep .75-1moa with my limitations ill be thrilled, and if i can improve so much the better. In general, i fancy myself a better than average shot, but as much as id like to be im no Adelbert Waldron, Simo Hayha, Carlos Hathcock, Chris Kyle, so I try to be realistic about my expectations, and like all my guns to be more accurate than I am, so I can always grow into them.

@M2HB
Yeah, so it would seem, lots to learn here :)

Guys, thank you for your time and all the info, please keep it coming, im a info sponge!
 
#11 ·
Just for info sake, almost any ammo will work in a bolt or pump action. The force applied BY YOU chamber the rounds and close the bolt on the round thus seating it properly. In the semiautos actions, the cycling of the bolt completes this task. Underpowered or inconsistent ammo, like Win, Browning and most Remington often do not provide enough oomph for the bolt to complete seating the round. It then takes some of the force of the firing pin strike to finish seating the round AND ignite the primer with the strike. All of the advice offered has been spot on IMO. I believe that following that advice will decrease your problems and increase your enjoyment. Good luck and report back on your progress. Stay safe!!
 
#12 ·
Oldshot, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, and that makes a lot of sense. As I do have some other semi autos, and the tiny margins of power variance on cheap ammo isnt enough to make it not actuate, again i just got to really change my thinking with the semi auto 22. Especially if fouling is so much of an issue, consistent and adequate pressure is required to make it cycle properly.

As for marking the mags, will like a silver sharpie mark stay on it, or do i need a paint pen or something else? The mags are made of what, some type of plastic, like Delrin, just dont want it to rub right off on my hand when loading.
 
#14 ·
Along with all the excellent information you got from Chaser and others in this post you may want to order a new mag plunger spring from Kidd if you think your mags aren't very tight. They have a regular one and a stiffer one (go with the stiffer one. The only other thing I would recommend doing is changing out your extractor if your using an OEM bolt. You can get a good one from Kidd also for about $12. Other than that you should be gtg. If it were me I would add a Kidd guide rod & springs for another $10 (they make the action run like butter) also, but that is up to you.
 
#15 ·
I use a silver sharpie to mark my five 10 round mags ABCDE and I just keep oil and solvent away, and remark them if I have too.
My first 1022 was a jam-o-matic when I first got it back in 2003 and I almost sold it because of that. After I discovered Rimfire Central and applied much of the vast tips and tricks, it now is 100% reliable with CCI and other decent ammo. Good Luck.
 
#17 ·
@Chaser
I haven't gotten a chance to do the cleaning yet, as I do not have the brush yet or the lube recommended.... they are still in transit.

I did have a question. You stated save the RemOil for something that likes it, that's fine, will do.

What is the issue with RemOil and 10\22's?
Why do 10\22's dislike RemOil?
Will this issue apply to other 22's? Other semi autos? All 22lr's?

Just trying to learn and understand.

THANKS!
 
#18 · (Edited)
@Chaser
I haven't gotten a chance to do the cleaning yet, as I do not have the brush yet or the lube recommended.... they are still in transit.

I did have a question. You stated save the RemOil for something that likes it, that's fine, will do.

What is the issue with RemOil and 10\22's?
Why do 10\22's dislike RemOil?
Will this issue apply to other 22's? Other semi autos? All 22lr's?

Just trying to learn and understand.

THANKS!
I have discovered as many have both here on RFC and across all other internet Weapon Boards the many benefits of the Hornady One Shot DL.. and most of us have tried almost everything on the market.. I know I have in the last 20 years.
You will see some Gents that actually run their 10tweekie2's DRY except for key areas/contact points.. these are Gents that have usually said enough is enough to messy/dirty oils and common lubes. I think it's best to spray on a all purpose dry lube that is proven effective.

Any paste or liquid lube creates MUD in the action.. actually gathers all the carbon and crud which slows/retards the action which leads to all kinds of issues.. and depending on the temp. it is either a runny mess or and thick sludgy mess = viscosity issues as well ... hope that paints a picture for ya. ;) Plus the HOSDL is a great rust prevention and cleaner.. so it's a win win win.... Timing on these rifles is VERY important.. and if it's impeded they won't run well. The metal to metal friction is not your friend either.. after ya run some HOSDL you WILL see why. :bthumb::D
 
#19 ·
OK, so RemOil is used for things with looser tolerances I assume, and what you guys said about how tight everything is with a KIDD barrel, then using Winchester white box (yeah i know..... it's what i got and finding good stuff in my area right now is really rough without spending match grade 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor prices) created the mud situation i have.
Sounds like why i use ProLong instead of WD40, WD40 is similar to kerosene, and evaporates badly and turns to mud.
 
#20 · (Edited)
WD40 is basically pressurized BabyOil and should rarely if ever be used in any Weapon. ;) I use it to blast crud/debris off parts.. because it's CHEAP and a decent blaster for the $$ .. then I scrub and wipe them down and apply the appropriate lube for that weapon/part before or during install.
Some weapons such as my AR love to be ran wet.. thus, I use several different "oils" in it and some of my other weapons for example.. not all weapons like/or need to run wet with oil.
I will never forget the time I took a rifle to an old Gunsmith (great one) for a little help when I was in my 30's and did not know better and he opened the action to give it a look/safety check and GASPED about how wet it was and gave me a complete cussin'!
 
#21 ·
Oh of course not, i didnt mean in a gun, i should have been more clear. I meant as a general lubricant, a squeaky hinge small stuff like that. The onl,y think i will use WD40 for anymore i also use brakleen for, a shot down a carb if i have a problem getting something to start for whatever reason, then i troubleshoot for there, prefer brakleen though. I was only making a comparison with WD40.

So what gun did you run sopping wet, and with what type of lube?

Also what lubes have you fou8nd work in what guns the best?
 
#23 · (Edited)
The go-to's:



I have partial bottles and cans of 7 others.. will eventually use those up in/on things around the house and shop... what works best for any specific firearm you would have to run/test for yourself.
The overly WET rifle was a Remi 700BDL.
 
#22 ·
333 is not a traditional round nose bullet shape. Tight chambers can shave lead even on round nose ammo if the edge of the chamber is sharp. Truncated bullets are worse. If the gun fouls quickly it will start jamming a lot in even less than 50 rounds. A light chamfer on the edge may help as can being more picky with your ammo in that chamber. If the rounds don't seat they won't go bang consistently even if the primer is ok. With a lot of winchester ammo produced in the last 5 to 10 years reliability has been hit and miss. As a general purpose off hand shooter, the standard carbine gives reliability superior to a tight chambered match barreled gun. The flip side is the accuracy is not as consistent. Trade offs.....

I suggest you get some CCI standard velocity, mini mags, aguila standard velocity and aguila high velocity and see if one of those is better.... You can't do any worse than what is happening now.
 
#29 ·
I use a snake wet for light cleaning after use (I clean the barrels and chamber of my match weapons after every match or visit to a range), followed by a dry patch or two. I prefer to finish up with a clean dry patch because I know there's no residue on it, and you get a nice look at how clean things are. You can always run the snake thru again.

I have multiple rods I've collected, but recently bought a pull-through kit designed for use at the range, with a plastic-coated steel cable and a T-handle. I really like this because - like a snake - it's easy to use thru the ejection port without removing the action from the stock.

My pistols just get a spray cleaner and a nylon brush, followed by a dry patch or two. As it takes 5 seconds to pull a slide and barrel, I will wipe and oil them as well.
 
#30 ·
I believe you said your build is TI and KIDD. These are higher quality parts with close tolerances. As such, they are more sensitive to "gunk". A little extra maintenance (read frequent cleaning) with your preferred solvent (I use a 50/50 mixture of Kroil/ Shooters Choice#7) followed up with the Hornady One Shot and your 10/22 will give you good service and much enjoyment. Spend much time detailing and servicing your vehicle? Your firearms deserve the same treatment. LOL
 
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