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  #16  
Old 04-20-2016, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX View Post

As far as everyone having access to them, everyone does.
you obviously live in a free state...not everybody does!! there are some states where having a thumbhole or collapsible stock, or even a threaded barrel is illegal ...and just mentioning the word "suppressor" could mean jail time
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2016, 10:42 AM
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As far as I know, there are only about 5 states now (+/-) where suppressors are not legal for ownership. And in those states you probably can't use a magazine that holds over 10 rounds either, if I was guessing. So does that mean that any magazine that holds over 10 rounds shouldn't be able to be used in SS? That the people in the other 45 states should be restricted to the rules of your state? States that don't allow suppressors are by far the exception, rather than the rule.


Last edited by JTPinTX; 04-20-2016 at 10:49 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2016, 01:55 PM
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I will soon be posting my latest SS build and you may have guessed, it's threaded! My preliminary assessment is that is going to be MOSH accurate easly, and with a little tuning quite accurate. I can see absolutely no reason to not allow suppressors to be used in the games as most of the time they DO NOT aid in accuracy. I'm a silencer owner and a hunter. Gradually all my rifles are going to receive a thread job because I hunt with every rifle I own, and I use silencers hunting.

Is it against Super Stock rules to even post pictures of my rifle with the silencer attached?
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:29 PM
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My vote: No suppressors in SS.
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  #20  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:59 AM
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A couple things to think about pertaining to the above points being shared:

1. As far as not everyone has them so we can not. If you hunt with a 10/22 or AR or any other semi auto in PA last I heard you can only have a magazine that holds 5 rounds. If EVERYONE must have one then it follows that ALL OF SUPERSTOCK should be restricted to 5 rounds because not every one can use a 10 or 15 round mag right? Just because a few states are still not allowing them why should everyone else's freedoms be restricted.

In fact in HI, I think it is still this way I could be wrong but certainly in countries like our friends to the South can not hunt or even own a semi auto so should we like wise restrict all of SuperStock from semi auto?.......er.......ummm.....a SuperStock by definition is a semi auto sporter styled rifle so if we went by what EVERYONE can have we could not have SuperStock!

You see where this thinking leads in it's extreme? Just because one person lives in a "free" state and another member may not why do we HELP the anti gun people by restricting our members? If we tried to match the gun laws to every place that RFC is seen around the world we would be in deep trouble.

If YOU feel SuperStock should not have suppressors than you vote against but I have a hard time with the taking away freedom just because some people are not free.

2.Threaded barrels ARE legal in SuperStock. Preferably with a thread protector.

3. I hope we can have a reasonable discussion about this. SuperStock may NEVER vote for Suppressors but that is no reason for both sides to not be civil about it.

4. cracked cornish:
Quote:
you obviously live in a free state...not everybody does!! there are some states where having a thumbhole or collapsible stock, or even a threaded barrel is illegal ...and just mentioning the word "suppressor" could mean jail time
First of all I HOPE there is at least a little humor here. I lived in CA through most of these restrictions being voted to law. Even there I KNOW you will not go to jail for saying the "S" word!!

Thumb hole stocks are also not legal in SuperStock but it was based on looks & trying to stay out of Ultimate Territory, not law!

5. Over the years SuperStock has had an influence on some gun makers most notably Ruger (their LVT is a copy of many of our rifles) and we KNOW they watch what we do here. Almost every manufacturer now makes threaded muzzles and it is not about "Tactical"

6. The point about helping our Sponsors is very valid but will probably not change any minds here. Our sponsors would stand to profit from this change and a I fail to see how that would be bad.

Please note: All of you know where I stand on this vote if we have it. I also doubt the vote would have much of a chance here and that is sad because it will tend to send good people with good rifles to another forum. Why would we chase these people away? Recently we have been accused of being an exclusive club and being clanish. While I do not want to seem like I am using that to gain votes but we need to change with the times. We NEED more people in this Forum!! Why are we sending them away?

Ask yourself this: "Is it any skin off my nose if a couple guys in SuperStock have a funny looking can on their barrel? Does that threaten SuperStock in ANY REASONABLE WAY?
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Last edited by Vincent; 04-21-2016 at 01:29 AM.
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  #21  
Old 04-21-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manford Trens View Post
My vote: No suppressors in SS.
Rather than saying NO, crossing your arms, and holding your breath, its helpful to provide a reason...Tom
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  #22  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:39 AM
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I am trying to word my thoughts very carefully here. As I said in my original post, I really am not trying to start trouble or stir the pot. It is just something I don't understand. I wasn't even seriously trying to call for a vote because I figured it wouldn't happen anyways. OK, maybe I was testing the waters a bit, but I really had little faith in it actually happening. Mainly I just wanted to share my frustration on the subject, and hopefully get some input so I could understand the point of view from the other side. I really would like to hear WHY the members of SuperStock don't want them, and not just that they don't. I really do mean that. To me a suppressor is a hearing protection device that applies to ALL makes and styles of firearms, not specific to one style or another. If the name of this forum was "Traditional" or "Factory" and not "SuperStock," I guess I could understand it much easier.

To that end, and for the sake of free flow of information, I think that my input into this thread is over. Everyone can throw out their own point of view without me trying to rebut it or argue with them. After all, I do believe my points and arguments have been made pretty clearly already. Continuing to belabor the point will not help the case any at all, and in fact will most assuredly push it in the opposite direction. So unless someone has a specific question for me, I am out. However it all plays out, I am good.

And, I would also be fine with one thread for all suppressor things, and them being restricted to that thread only. From the looks of it so far, I think it would get a lot of traffic.
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  #23  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:39 AM
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If there were a vote on this, mine would be yes. For many of the reasons you state JTPinTX.

Vincent How long ago was the suppressor vote? Maybe it's time to take another look?
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlysAlot View Post
I don't think your input is unwelcome or unwanted... I'm saying, I think a suppressor game would be huge fun. I'd love to see a POI shift game that'd be fun!
Most of our "Games are groups not POI. So a group that moves 1" when you take the thing off does not matter in 90%of our games.

I am not sure how you are going to run a POI Shift Game? Care to throw out a couple thoughts?

For the ones that it does? It rarely takes me more than 5 shots to move a group that is less than 3-4 inches from POA. I have to shoot! Oh darn!!
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Last edited by Vincent; 04-21-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlysAlot View Post
I don't think your input is unwelcome or unwanted... I'm saying, I think a suppressor game would be huge fun. I'd love to see a POI shift game that'd be fun!
We could get creative in many ways to include them.

I have the hardest time understanding why it is such a no-no with people it will never hurt in any way. Why restrict our friend's fun just because we are not into that suppressor?
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Last edited by Vincent; 04-21-2016 at 12:52 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSky1 View Post
If there were a vote on this, mine would be yes. For many of the reasons you state JTPinTX.

Vincent How long ago was the suppressor vote? Maybe it's time to take another look?
I looked the other day but I believe it was 2012. Time is one of, a major one of, the reasons to revisit a topic and possibly vote.

I think all of us should consider this a pre vote discussion! I see enough interest and 4 years is plenty of time. Having said that I would like a couple more days of discussing before we vote.
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX View Post
I am trying to word my thoughts very carefully here. As I said in my original post, I really am not trying to start trouble or stir the pot. It is just something I don't understand. I wasn't even seriously trying to call for a vote because I figured it wouldn't happen anyways. OK, maybe I was testing the waters a bit, but I really had little faith in it actually happening. Mainly I just wanted to share my frustration on the subject, and hopefully get some input so I could understand the point of view from the other side. I really would like to hear WHY the members of SuperStock don't want them, and not just that they don't. I really do mean that. To me a suppressor is a hearing protection device that applies to ALL makes and styles of firearms, not specific to one style or another. If the name of this forum was "Traditional" or "Factory" and not "SuperStock," I guess I could understand it much easier.

To that end, and for the sake of free flow of information, I think that my input into this thread is over. Everyone can throw out their own point of view without me trying to rebut it or argue with them. After all, I do believe my points and arguments have been made pretty clearly already. Continuing to belabor the point will not help the case any at all, and in fact will most assuredly push it in the opposite direction. So unless someone has a specific question for me, I am out. However it all plays out, I am good.

And, I would also be fine with one thread for all suppressor things, and them being restricted to that thread only. From the looks of it so far, I think it would get a lot of traffic.
I think you have been quite a gentleman so far and you are welcome to share your thoughts right up to the spot you start breaking RFC posting rules and you have not even come close with your posts so far.

Do not be bashful. We really are friends here and as long as we act friendly say what you will when you will. In the past SuperStock has not been a place where you or anyone else would have to tip toe around in. I do not want ANYONE to feel like that here.....That is just as true for you "Anti Can" members
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX View Post
I am trying to word my thoughts very carefully here. As I said in my original post, I really am not trying to start trouble or stir the pot. It is just something I don't understand. I wasn't even seriously trying to call for a vote because I figured it wouldn't happen anyways. OK, maybe I was testing the waters a bit, but I really had little faith in it actually happening. Mainly I just wanted to share my frustration on the subject, and hopefully get some input so I could understand the point of view from the other side. I really would like to hear WHY the members of SuperStock don't want them, and not just that they don't. I really do mean that. To me a suppressor is a hearing protection device that applies to ALL makes and styles of firearms, not specific to one style or another. If the name of this forum was "Traditional" or "Factory" and not "SuperStock," I guess I could understand it much easier.

To that end, and for the sake of free flow of information, I think that my input into this thread is over. Everyone can throw out their own point of view without me trying to rebut it or argue with them. After all, I do believe my points and arguments have been made pretty clearly already. Continuing to belabor the point will not help the case any at all, and in fact will most assuredly push it in the opposite direction. So unless someone has a specific question for me, I am out. However it all plays out, I am good.

And, I would also be fine with one thread for all suppressor things, and them being restricted to that thread only. From the looks of it so far, I think it would get a lot of traffic.
First off, huge respect to you for expressing your points so civilly and intelligently, and writing your thoughts so well I hope that you feel welcome and appreciated here. You seem to to be the sort of person who is an asset to ANY group; thoughtful and respectful.

I agree very much that suppressors should be viewed primarily as safety devices. However, I voted against in this case. I am a huge fan of Military-style peep sights as well, yet they are banned from SuperStock because it is a matter of appearances and format. I diverge from Vincent in that he seems to base disqualifications heavily on whether the proposed feature might encroach into the territory of another RFC forum. I would prefer to keep things in SuperStock following a classic sporter design and appearance as a standalone ethic. I feel this precludes suppressors. Indeed, this forum may not be called "Factory", but terms like "Factory", "OEM", and "Stock" are clearly synonymous. "SuperStock" is about enhanced stock rifles with classic, traditional cosmetics. I also submit for your consideration that in the rules, the words "Traditional Sporter" in fact appear prominently and early. This is my line of thinking, since you inquired. Again, on a personal note, I will be very happy to see your forum participation with or without your can, however things turn out. I woke up breathing in America today, so I will be pretty happy whichever way the vote goes
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:04 PM
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Rather than saying NO, crossing your arms, and holding your breath, its helpful to provide a reason...Tom
You are correct! I mistakenly thought we were voting at this point
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:34 PM
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What are we discussing

We are discussing a change in current rules that would allow legal suppressors.

No other change. We are not going tactical or changing our baseline rules as to barrel size or stock changes or anything else!!

We are also NOT discussing a separate subforum with in SS just for suppressed rifles or (remember we also shoot pistols here) pistols.

First of all I do not thjink that would be welcome from Admin level as we have started to look at, as Sophia puts it "how thin we slice the pie" and a different division with in SuperStock would probably not be welcome but I can ask her if I am in line with RFC goals saying that.

Having said that the game rules are pretty much up to the owner of the game. For instance because they would be a legal SuperStock the owner of the game would pretty much have to let them shoot it but they might want results in two lists like Suppressed and Unsuppressed if they REALLY felt that need.

So is everyone clear where this discussion is going and what it is about?
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