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Old 02-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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Pillar and Bedding 452 Varmint and Silhouette by Dr Gunner



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Link to thread contain information on pillar bedding a 452 Varmint by DrGunner.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=553469


Link to thread on pillar bedding a 452 Silhouette.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=553471

Last edited by timberbeast; 07-14-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:32 PM
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Ok, folks, after screwing up DrGunner's great threads, I finally got them separated so that Dr Gunner and the rest of you can find them easily and continue to add information to them.

Thanks for your patience with your moderator. Lots of great information here on bedding CZ stocks.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:52 PM
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Thanks, TB- appreciate the work you put in here and for RFC in general!

DrGunner
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:10 AM
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Pillar and Bedding 452 Varmint and Silhouette by Dr Gunner

Finally got round to doing my pillars DrGunner. Used a slightly different method as mine started out as a 3/8" hose adaptor and was all done on a lathe. Been putting doing the job though as I'm thinking of getting boyds stock for it. The pillars then need machining to length, I'm in no rush though as have too much on at work to do much shooting at present. I'll do a thread once I get round to it though.

Last edited by Bicykillgaz; 08-07-2014 at 04:13 AM. Reason: wrong info regarding size
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicykillgaz View Post
Finally got round to doing my pillars DrGunner. Used a slightly different method as mine started out as a 3/8" hose adaptor and was all done on a lathe. Been putting doing the job though as I'm thinking of getting boyds stock for it. The pillars then need machining to length, I'm in no rush though as have too much on at work to do much shooting at present. I'll do a thread once I get round to it though.
Nice work, I'm looking forward to seeing your thread. Please send me a PM or post a link here when you get started-

Regards,

DrGunner
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:26 AM
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Will do Dr, I'm really tempted to go with the extra action screw too like you've done with the silhouette. Another excellent job, which method would you say has given the better improvement?

Do your pillars make contact with the action, or stop short and the bedding makes up the gap?
I assumed they touch it but when researching recently read they should come a fraction short and the bedding make up the gap. I assume it's incase they are a fraction out causing the action to sit uneven, but purely guessing.

I'll keep you posted.

Gary
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicykillgaz View Post
Will do Dr, I'm really tempted to go with the extra action screw too like you've done with the silhouette. Another excellent job, which method would you say has given the better improvement?
Well, interesting query with no definitive answer.
My 452 Varmint is bedded from rear tang to barrel lug with pillars under the original action screw and a pillar/mega escutcheon under the barrel lug. That rifle is an enigma, plain and simple. One of the least expensive (bought used for $325) in my safe, and I can say I will NEVER sell it- it shoots like a laser- anyone who has shot it wants to take it home. It was a good shooter out of the gate, but the action was a loose fit in the stock and the barrel had typical CZ leftsiditis in the barrel channel.
So the pillar bedding was not done to "fix" an inherent inconsistency like my 452 Silhouette demonstrated, with vertical groups.

The 452 Silhouette was the one that got the extra action lug welded to the rear tang. In the first iteration, the barrel lug was removed and the action bedded up to about 1.5" of barrel channel, with pillars under the rear tang lug and main action screw. That configuration cut the vertical of the groups in half- I was still not happy.
I went back and reinstalled the barrel lug- and added a small Allen set screw to lock the lug at center. First, I found an Allen socket set screw at Menards with the proper threads. I ground it down on a bench sander, decreasing the depth of the Allen socket enough to just allow the ball end of one of my Allen drivers to seat completely in the socket. Then I ground down the other end to an overall length of 5 mm of threads, and ground the contact end to a conical point. Then I tempered the point. Next, I installed the barrel lug with the Allen set screw in place, assembled the action in the stock and snugged the set screw. I then disassembled the rifle, removed the barrel lug, and found the contact point where the set screw had left a tiny dimple in the flat part of the dovetail slot for the barrel lug. I used my drill press to drill a small conical receptacle in the barrel for the set screw to recess into, thus locking the barrel lug in place with a solid connection. I reassembled the rig to double check the position of the barrel lug, and when confirmed, I installed the set screw with blue Loctite and torqued it to 35 inch pounds.

Then I ground out the bedding in the barrel channel, drilled anchor holes and bedded the barrel channel up to the barrel lug. I bedded the lug and lower escutcheon as well.

The vertical stringing was completely cured- which leads me to wonder whether the addition of the rear action screw was necessary at all. While it did improve things, the final cure was bedding of the barrel channel. That said, my Silhouette will not run with my Varmint, with any ammo. The SIL will hold MOA to 100m with good ammo, the Varmint does it easily and may even produce 1/2MOA to 100 in the right conditions.

Hard to say what my advice would be, because even my 20/20 hindsight doesn't provide all the answers. The goal of the rear action screw was to float the barrel. Doing so did not net me the result I was looking for. Bedding the barrel channel did. The only way to tell would be to try another and bed the barrel channel first. If the rifle does not impress, one could always go back and add the rear tang lug and rebed the rear.

What really impressed me on the silhouette was the way the Devcon blended when I added the barrel channel and barrel lug bedding. The witness lines under the far end of the receiver are barely visible as two nearly symmetrical arcuate lines:





Quote:
Do your pillars make contact with the action, or stop short and the bedding makes up the gap?
My pillars contact the action firmly around the full radius of the pillars, for the most part because the lug pillars are flat.

Quote:
I assumed they touch it but when researching recently read they should come a fraction short and the bedding make up the gap.
That's a new one on me- and somewhat illogical. In fact, I would disagree with that method-
The purpose of the pillars is to negate the compressive forces of the fasteners on the stock as well as center the action screws in the pillars for added stability. The bedding provides stability for improved harmonics and negates motion, providing repeatable position of the action in the stock on reassembly and removing any shift in position of the action in the stock from shot to shot.

The more I think about it, pillars that come short of contact would be undesirable. Despite having bedding compound on the remainder of the contact surface of the action, torquing the action screws could result in compression of the stock material
or flexion of the receiver, in essence inducing stress into the system.

You might want to check out Stress Free Pillar Bedding by gunsmith Richard Franklin. His instructional video is well worth the investment.

CLICK HERE to link to the article


In my research and reading, all instructional material I've run across recommends as full contact as possible between pillars and action. The underside of the 452 receiver where the action screw installs provides a unique challenge as it is uneven, being sloped front to back, concave side to side (cylindrical action) with grooves beginning distally which are machined to support and align the magwell.
I took quite a bit of time shaping the main action pillar on both rifles, which required multiple test fits and both pillars necessitated directional installation and had to be marked for alignment. A simple cylindrical pillar would not have worked and would have created uneven contact because of the goofy shape of the CZ receiver.
The pillar for the rear lug that I added to the silhouette and the barrel lug pillars are perfectly flat and thus are easy to bed with full contact.
I wish I had bedded the main action pillar on my Varmint differently, I surrounded it with plumbers putty which left the pillar with space around it. I wish I had bedding compound supporting the pillar on all sides. That said, its current configuration has not ceased to impress myself and others one iota after multiple range trips.


If I may inquire- where did you read in your research that it is suggested to leave the pillars short of direct contact? I'd like to read that and would also be interested in knowing the source...

Every custom or factory bedded rest stock that I have seen in pictures or in person has had full radius contact between pillars and action wherever possible.

Regards,

DrGunner

Last edited by DrGunner; 08-09-2014 at 02:28 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2014, 03:03 AM
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Pillar and Bedding 452 Varmint and Silhouette by Dr Gunner

Thank you for your in depth answer Dr. The person stating about the pillars is a uk based firm here's a link- http://www.brockandnorris.com/page.asp?id=bedding if you read the bottom paragraph I thought it strange when I read it but assumed been a custom rifle builder he'd hopefully know what he was doing, I guess he's just lazy.


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  #9  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:33 PM
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Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith who would be able (and willing) to do a pillar and bedding job on my 455 American with the synthetic stock and also install a bipod post?

Thanks!
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by harrylug View Post
Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith who would be able (and willing) to do a pillar and bedding job on my 455 American with the synthetic stock and also install a bipod post?

Thanks!
PM djdilliodon (aka dj) on the forum here as he works on everything and specializes in the CZ 455's and he will hook you up. Heck of a great guy and very competent and knowledgable...Tell em Glenn sent ya!

...Glenn
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Old 09-25-2016, 02:27 PM
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Good thread, helped me understand the whole process a bit better. Thanks for the explanation!

I just dit my pillar and partial bedding job on my CZ 455 Varmint with GRS stock this weekend. The action sits real snug in the stock, and the RVS steel pillars are epoxied into the stock. Cleaned it up just now (after I took these pictures) and next Tuesday I'll find out what the difference is in accuracy when I push some lead down range at 50 meters (55 yards). Let's hope I can see some difference. Torque is set to 2.8nm (or 24 F/lbs). I'll let you guys know.
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