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  #31  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:24 PM
Alecbh

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1500 View Post
This thread is like stepping into bizarro world. Despite this really odd thread, the reception of this rifle in person has been through the roof. Almost every gun guy who has seen it in person, has ordered one. The owner of Scottsdale Gun Club loved it and will be stocking them. Getting orders thought the website for them every day.

$240 for a threaded barrel, quick release mechanism, handguard and folding stock is not a reasonable price? If you don't want one, don't buy one.
If I may:

It seems like a lot of people are getting confused over prices, and that's half of the criticism. The other half seems to be comments about looks, which are completely subjective.

However, you seem to be getting awfully defensive of your(I assume) system based on people's opinions. It's an old idea executed in a new way, and there's already market demand for something like it, but if I were a prospective customer and I saw your quips back at every little criticism, I would be rather turned off. Not everyone is going to like what you've got. Let them run their mouths about their opinion, and let your system sell on its own factual merits.

My $.02.
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  #32  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:40 PM
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It seemed pretty clear to me in the first 30 seconds on the website $450 was for a complete rifle

$240 is the kit which includes a match grade barrel, a folding stock and a Carbon Fiber fore end that returns the barrel to zero when disassembled and reassembled. That is a swinging deal if you sak me.

Priced good barrels lately?

Priced AR Carbon Fiber fore ends that do not do anything for zero?

I think people are not READING the website is the problem.

Seems like it would also attract some of the "tactical forum" guys.

They pay close to that just for some of their AR looking stocks I think but I am not certain because I do not follow it that close.

To me it looks like the best "survival" 10/22 yet and maybe just the best survival rifle yet.

I wish I could walk enough, and still have a desert to to walk in, to justify one. If you have seen my rifles you know I am very much a walnut/steel kind of guy but this thing screams "FUNCTIONAL"!!!
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  #33  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:02 PM
Gary C
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Let me stick my two cents in here, as well.

First, Alec, you show wisdom beyond your years.

Secondly, form follows function, aesthetics do not. On the other hand, I don't see why the hand guard couldn't be made more aesthetically pleasing.

If I understand the way this works, a receiver adapter is held in place by the V-Block. Inside of that, you slip the barrel, and over the barrel you slip the hand guard, which also has the mechanism to hold the barrel in place against the receiver adapter.

It's quite an elegant design for a take down rifle.

The two things I would change would be to offer the completed rifle in either a threaded or non-threaded receiver. There is the possibility of barrel droop on this rifle, and a Kidd-style threaded receiver and a threaded receiver adapter would prevent that.

Secondly, it should not be a problem, since it's carbon fiber, to re-contour the barrel shroud hand grip to be more elliptical, oval or something more aesthetically pleasing. It would make sense to me that a mechanism surrounding the threaded portion of the hand guard that that attaches to the receiver should be made to rotate, and then locked into place. I'll have to draw something up and add it to this post to illustrate what I mean. But, it shouldn't be hard to do, and shouldn't add more than a few dollars to the cost.

Edit: What I'm thinking of, instead of a round hand guard, would look something like this:



This would give a shape that most people who are using a rifle are accustomed to. The shroud attaches the same way, except that inside of the carbon fiber would be threaded inserts where you would use an Allen screw. At the bottom would be a support bracket for the barrel retaining nut to ride on. It says 'barrel', I meant the retaining nut. Once the barrel was installed to the proper torque the first time, the shroud could be rotated until it was in the correct position, and the Allen screws could be tightened down. Then the shroud may be more pleasing to the eye, and still offer the same functionality.

I'd like to hear how it functions and how accurate it is.

Gary

Last edited by Gary C; 10-24-2011 at 09:36 PM. Reason: added a drawing for clarification
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  #34  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:48 PM
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Gary, one important thing your design concept overlooks is a tooless takedown procedure.

I think that's one of the major selling points of a take-down rifle (looking at both AR-7 and papoose). If I need to fiddle with allen wrench and screws, I'm really only one step away from just field stripping a "normal" 10/22, which kinda defeats the point of a compact backpacker that you can quickly put together into functional form.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:08 PM
Z1500

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In the AGP system the v-block is eliminated and thus barrel droop eliminated. The barrel is held true to the receiver by the adapter and repeats that location every time. The bearing surface of barrel to receiver is lengthened about 3x longer than stock and clamping force is perfectly perpendicular. Not being pulled over to one side. Thus, return to zero every time.
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  #36  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:23 PM
Gary C
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Killy,
The initial set up would be one time on the shroud. Once it was in place and locked down, you shouldn't need to mess with it.

Z, how does the adapter stay in the barrel, unless you use the screw holes for the V-Block?

This concept really interests me, but I'm getting ready to get rid of my 10/22, and I have no use for a backpack rifle. Otherwise I might get one. Pretty cool the way it's done.

Gary
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  #37  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:28 PM
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This item is targeted (pun intended) at folks who desire a functioning take down 10/22. Folks like that aren't too concerned that it fits the "in" style.

Personally, the brightly colored stocks, fancy trigger groups, jeweled bolts, and $200+ barrels look silly to me. But I don't jump into a thread praising them and poo-poo those rifles. It's just not my can of worms.

But I can see the beauty in a 10/22 that I can break down and store in the tail bag on my dual sport.

To each his or her own.

I plan on getting an AGP take-down kit as funds become available, and I am thankful that AGP Arms has made what looks to be a high quality product.
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  #38  
Old 10-25-2011, 01:21 AM
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Thumbs up Excellent aftermarket thinking

I think it's a great rig. May be able to afford one of the kits soon.

It's easy to critique it since it's completed. Function takes it over looks in this case for me. Other than VQ's Fusion and probably the CIA's briefcase version it's a nice affordable rig.
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  #39  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1500 View Post
The ugly comments are a little overboard.
No, I have to disagree, that is just fugly, it's really that simple. There has to be an easier way to do a take down system that looks at least halfway decent. The AR-7 and Papoose both look a whole lot better than that thing does, and they are not pretty.
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom View Post
No, I have to disagree, that is just fugly, it's really that simple. There has to be an easier way to do a take down system that looks at least halfway decent. The AR-7 and Papoose both look a whole lot better than that thing does, and they are not pretty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like this much better than either the AR7 (this rifle is pretty much a failure anyway) or the truncated Papoose. I like the look of carbon fiber.
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  #41  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1500 View Post
This thread is like stepping into bizarro world. Despite this really odd thread, the reception of this rifle in person has been through the roof. Almost every gun guy who has seen it in person, has ordered one. The owner of Scottsdale Gun Club loved it and will be stocking them. Getting orders thought the website for them every day.

$240 for a threaded barrel, quick release mechanism, handguard and folding stock is not a reasonable price? If you don't want one, don't buy one.

You wouldn't possibly work for or "know the guy" who owns the company by chance do ya? Hey man, a forum wouldn't be a forum without opinions...especially things that are for sale and on the market being promoted...If you are getting all flustered because you like the rifle and are feeling you have to defend yourself about your purchase decisions... I'm sorry, but grow up! Who cares what anyone thinks...And if you DO own or work for AGP, your attitude is reflecting your company...and I hope your customer service department doesn't carry the same tune...just sayin'...
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  #42  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by InfamousJ View Post
You wouldn't possibly work for or "know the guy" who owns the company by chance do ya? Hey man, a forum wouldn't be a forum without opinions...especially things that are for sale and on the market being promoted...If you are getting all flustered because you like the rifle and are feeling you have to defend yourself about your purchase decisions... I'm sorry, but grow up! Who cares what anyone thinks...And if you DO own or work for AGP, your attitude is reflecting your company...and I hope your customer service department doesn't carry the same tune...just sayin'...
+1. I noticed you saying that you are getting orders online for them every day, so that means you own or work for them. You come on this site extolling their virtues, and then smart mouth us when we have questions and comments? In addition, I noticed the shipping and warranty conditions. 30 days is not a very impressive warranty period, and two weeks or more to ship is unimpressive as well. I hope it turns out to be a good product, but that remains to be seen. Regards.
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  #43  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:19 AM
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Busted. Z1500 owns the company. Found him on Arizona Arms site. No wonder you're sooo touchy.
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  #44  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:20 AM
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So call me...

ugly to my face!



I checked out the AGP website. Seems like a pretty cool idea with a reasonable price. I have looked for a Butler Creek Packer Stock in the past, but they seem to be very hard to find and if found, not cheap. So...I think I might be looking a little closer at this new 10/22 take down idea cause I think my ugly duckling needs a brother.

Later!

Simi

Last edited by Simi-audamadik; 10-27-2011 at 01:36 AM.
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  #45  
Old 10-27-2011, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
In addition, I noticed the shipping and warranty conditions. 30 days is not a very impressive warranty period, and two weeks or more to ship is unimpressive as well. I hope it turns out to be a good product, but that remains to be seen. Regards.
it's unlisted on the website, but apparently the warranty is 1 year for the complete rifle-package as I posted on the first page. I assume the same policy applies to just the conversion kit as well.
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