Win 52 Pre A Rear Locking Lug Crack - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-18-2010, 02:34 PM
jGEE's Avatar
jGEE

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Posts: 
2,232
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Win 52 Pre A Rear Locking Lug Crack



Log in to see fewer ads
Thanks to Steve aka SEEWIN here are a couple of pics of the Win 52 Pre-A where it is notroious for cracking in the rear locking lug. If anyone has any info or pictures to add please do. thanks joe





Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:29 PM
jGEE's Avatar
jGEE

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Posts: 
2,232
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Thanks guys i deleted your post -didn't want anyone to be confused after the correction i made -and now mine is corrected!! It is the PRE A's that are prone to crack. joe
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-18-2010, 05:56 PM
Keeley's Avatar
Keeley
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Jan 2005
Location: 
AZ
Posts: 
4,024
TPC Rating: 
100% (21)
Calfee Book

Although there are no photos there is a good illustration of this problem in the new Calfee book.

T
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 02-19-2010, 10:32 AM
jGEE's Avatar
jGEE

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Posts: 
2,232
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
WHAT CAUSES 52 PRE-A's TO CRACK?

I had read numerators time about the Pre A's cracking. I didn't know where until i found the picture Steve posted (thanks).

Question -what makes 'em crack? It is hard for me to believe it is recoil from a 22 rimfire. Just looking at the pic it looks like it could be a locking lug to thick being cranked into a space too small- but i don't have a clue, never even seen a Pre-A.

Does anyone have any ideas -what seems to be the conses of opinion ???
thanks joe


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-19-2010, 10:58 AM
DPSTX's Avatar
DPSTX
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2008
Location: 
Leander, TX
Posts: 
1,031
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I believe that it is the camming action of the safety(once things start to wear on the rifle, the safety may try to cam the firing pin/bolt sideways instead of backwards, due to wear induced misalignment), but could also be a result of the hammering that could occur when the bolt to bolt handle wear begins to increase headspace, or rather, just too much clearance in that whole "sandwich". My old 1923 model had .010" clearance, I put in a .010" shim to tighten it up. Makes it shoot better too....

DPSTX
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2010, 11:01 AM
22AGS's Avatar
22AGS
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2006
Location: 
south Florida
Posts: 
9,160
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
jGee, good question, one I'm sure to be curious about myself, having a premium pre-A of my own. Since the A had a redesigned and beefed up safety mechanism, I'm gonna guess/hope that actuation of said safety on the pre-A put undue stress on the underdesigned metal in that area. Luckily I only shoot the gun off the bench, thus never actually have to manipulate that safety catch--the gun is either being fired or is unloaded and the bolt open.

Last edited by 22AGS; 02-19-2010 at 11:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-19-2010, 04:23 PM
TEDDY BEAR RAT's Avatar
TEDDY BEAR RAT
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! UotM

Join Date: 
Jun 2009
Posts: 
5,405
TPC Rating: 
100% (33)
I'll be interested in the experts' replies, as well. I know a perfectly crisp, 90 degree cut in a part that will be under stress tends to concentrate, or focus, stress right into the "crotch" of the corner, leading to cracking. A small radius there, even a very small radius, will greatly strengthen that area. I remember a class on wire EDM technology where we were taught that just the diameter of the wire cutting the corner made a difference. This came up when I was cutting the mortise for a falling block action I was making. Since it was a very easy thing to program, I ended up cutting a small radius in the corners, about 3 times the diameter of the wire, to ensure maximum strength. The corners of the block were then just broken enough to match the radius in the mortise corners.

As far as the pre-A cracking, I know it can happen when head space is too tight. When rebarreling, a gunsmith, wanting that last bit of "minimum headspace," goes a bit too far. The camming action of the bolt does the rest. As far as rifles with barrels installed at the factory with the proper headspace developing cracks over time, I'll defer to the experts, again. I know that the pre-As were later improved by shortening the shaft on the safety levers to reduce leverage and prevent bending of the shaft, at least that was the official reason. The shorter shaft conveniently resulted in more steel behind the left lug, though, so the cracking in that area may have influenced the modification as well.

I'm very curious about what the knowledgable people have to say.

TBR
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-19-2010, 06:52 PM
ghgrosh
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
May 2009
Location: 
Yorktown Va.
Posts: 
353
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Bill Calfee attributed to the receiver being case hardened and the thin cross section. With the receiver being so thin it would become brittle when case hardened. That sharp corner does create very high stresses.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-19-2010, 07:36 PM
BrianJ
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Nov 2006
Location: 
AZ
Posts: 
4,389
TPC Rating: 
100% (11)
Crack

Didn't think they were hardened prior to the "C" ? Besides the trigger that was a major item that set the "C" apart from earlier 52's many of which lost their headspace from being "soft".

bjm
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-19-2010, 07:53 PM
jGEE's Avatar
jGEE

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Posts: 
2,232
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
We have some interesting observations. If someone has an extra pre-a layin on the floor, please send it to me -i wanna see, lol.

Does anyone have a parts Pre-a or maybe one that is cracked they cut put a file on to "feel" for the hardness. Case hardened a file should just slide across and not bite in????

Mr Seewin do you have any more pics of a pre-a receiver? thanks everyone it is an interesting subject. joe
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-19-2010, 09:05 PM
JohnOhio
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
May 2007
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
2,194
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
52

I really believe it was a combination of things that contibuted to the cracking of the locking lugs. The safety was definately the start of the problem and after continued shooting -which in turn caused headspacing - it threw it out of kilder to a point that stressed the locking lug and it cracked. Winchester tried to solve this problem by strengthening the locking lug and I believe modifying the safety somewhat( have to go back and look at some old info-can't remember) in the 52A's. The B's were re-designed completely. Brian is right about the C's-the actions and bolts were case-hardened. Thus eliminating head-spacing. The problem with the casehardening is warpage and this causes accuracy problems.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-26-2010, 10:09 PM
Out of $

Join Date: 
Jun 2007
Posts: 
184
TPC Rating: 
100% (15)
?

I have looked up my 52 and have never been able to determine what it is exactly. It's serial number is 38452, is it a pre-A or is this gun an un- marked A ? I believe it was manufactured in 1935.
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-26-2010, 10:14 PM
Seewin
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2003
Location: 
MO
Posts: 
3,207
TPC Rating: 
100% (59)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Out of $ View Post
I have looked up my 52 and have never been able to determine what it is exactly. It's serial number is 38452, is it a pre-A or is this gun an un- marked A ? I believe it was manufactured in 1935.
Thanks
Your gun is an A model that was produced prior to Winchester marking them as such.
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 10:22 PM
Out of $

Join Date: 
Jun 2007
Posts: 
184
TPC Rating: 
100% (15)
?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-27-2010, 12:26 AM
ghgrosh
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
May 2009
Location: 
Yorktown Va.
Posts: 
353
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
The pre A's measure about .100" where the crack occurs, A's measure about .185". On my pre A the safety cams the firing pin rearward when engaged, I believe that this induces more stress than firing as you have two lugs to absorb the recoil when fired..............George
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x