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  #76  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:16 PM
SlowJoeCrow
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Have you considered mini shells? They have much less recoil and report than regular 12ga, and you can load a few more. With an Opsol mini-clip they feed reliably in Mossberg 500, 590 and Maverick 88 pump guns.
Personally I use a pistol for home defense, since it's easier to handle and reserve my shotgun for 3 gun.
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  #77  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:18 PM
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I see 5 pages of info I'm not really up to reading so I'll just add my 3 cents:

1. with any shotgun you'll get about 1" of pattern per yard from the target. So if you're down the hall...that's about a 2" pattern at best.

2. shotguns are hard to maneuver with. If you have a shotgun with a stock you will not be able to move down hallways and enter rooms w/out raising the barrel up. If someone gets close to you they can use the barrel as leverage to disarm you.

3. Even with #4 shot the round will penetrate interior wallboard.

4. Joe Biden is a fool, the shotgun is not the optimal weapon for defense inside a house. If you're inside and shooting outside that's a different situation, but in my state at least that's almost certainly criminal.

5. If you're using a folding stock or pistol grip, you better practice with it at the range to understand how to hit a target even just a few yards away. And how not to hit yourself in the face if you're trying to aim down the receiver
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  #78  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:29 PM
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I'm a fan of the shotgun with a 9mm back up. A pump remington 870 or Mossburg 500 is the ideal candidate. Load with #5 shot (good enough for the CIA good enough for me). A revolver in 410 is also a good choice. Keep in mind that after the first indoor shot your ears will be ringing and the flash will nearly blind you but the bad guys will be in worse shape. Lasers at close range provide an undesirable point to aim at. If you are hip firing aim high most folks aim at the middle and don't hit very well. Whatever you use be comfortable and practice a lot. Don't look for the bad guys. Create a defensive point and let them come to you. Defend only lives everything else can be replaced.
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  #79  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by flangster View Post
A So I started thinking in general terms about solving the penetration problem.


Layered defenses is something to consider, to include a conversation with the kids about "what to do if....." I'm very happy to see schools now teaching "run - hide - fight back" in the more enlightened areas of the country. Something similar adapted for your situation might be useful with a discussion about which direction to run or where to hide.

In my case, there is the outer perimeter, the inner perimeter, the minefield in between (just kidding) and some very large and ferocious acting dogs inside the house. It took some work but I also have near the bed one switch that turns on all the exterior house lights at once. I keep on the nightstand a very bright LED flashlight (has multiple settings) as well as my cellphone. In the nightstand drawer is a handgun equipped with a very bright light. In the closet is the Rem870 loaded with #3 buck.

There is more but my situation at the Raggedy Edge is different to yours a bit closer to civilization so those details aren't relevant, methinks.

Aside from the dogs and an alarm on my driveway at the gate 100 yards from the house I have no alarm systems but one of my neighbors does. He is a high-tech guy. He also frequently travels on work-related trips. One night his nearest neighbor got a call at oh-dark-thirty because Mr. High-Tech's alarm had alerted him to activity outside his house. He monitored on his cellphone the cameras at his house, a thousand miles away, showing a pair of figures prowling around the exterior and shining lights in through the windows.... it appeared they knew the house was vacant. Telephoned neighbor saddled up and went to investigate but found himself following behind the Sheriff's deputies who had also been called by Mr. High-Tech. By the time they arrived there was no one to be found.... probably chased off by the approaching headlights.
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  #80  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:39 PM
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Don't look for the bad guys. Create a defensive point and let them come to you
I agree with this 100%
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  #81  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:07 PM
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First, I use a handgun...

If someone is in my house after we go to bed, I would get my Sig P938, which has for first chambered round a target fracture cartridge. I have used those for dispatching injured or sick dogs. I don’t want to kill a burglar if I can avoid it. Too much legal exposure, I want them to know I am armed and serious.

Behind the bedroom door I have a black Bonelli 12 ga. Pump. It’s a combat configuration with iron sights. It holds fine rounds of trap loads of #8 shot. The chamber is empty. As a police officer way back in the 60s, we were taught to rack one in the chamber before we intended to fire. The sound of a 12ga. Loading is loud and in a quiet home, sends terror in the heart of the intruder. I would rather they turn-tail and leave quickly because my wife has already dialed 911 as I was getting out of bed. Killing a bad guy is really no fun and should be avoided especially when you are a senior citizen. You can’t fight a 20 year old even if you think you can.

As to noise: I had a 12ga Remington 870 in the patrol car that I did use one night a long time ago. I fired the 870 down the hallway of a guy’s home who was threatened to kill his wife. As he came out of a bedroom with a revolver in his hand, I didn’t think twice, I racked one in the chamber as he ducked back into the bedroom. I fired for effect. He threw the gun out and yell, “don’t shoot”. I don’t know if he was frightened by the noise of the racking or the explosion of the double OO BUCK, but it did the job for me that night. I had a loud ringing in my ears for about a week, and partial deafness for sometime after. I wear hearing aids today that I sure came from that narrow hallway. So, I urge you not to shoot any guns inside your home unless you have to.

I strongly suggest a 12ga pump using trap or sheet load. If you hit someone with an ounce of BBs fired from a 12ga, you can sure he is damaged.
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  #82  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:07 PM
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I'm of the handgun HD persuasion myself, but overpenetration is definitely something to consider in all scenarios- not just from your weapon but possibly from the bad guy's weapon..

Has anyone had a chance to test the critical defense frangible rounds or read any reviews of them?
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  #83  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:17 PM
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Old rule of thumb

Shotgun shot spread can vary but the easy way to remember is:

WITHIN a room Golf ball
ACROSS a room Baseball
down a HALL Softball

The myth of a shoot gun blast getting everything in the room is just that, A MYTH .
You still have got to aim.


12 ga pump that was a pistol grip but collapsible stock gives good close control plus, when extended, functions as a long gun.
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  #84  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:40 PM
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My HD layered defense is a 9mm w laser, 38+P w laser revolver, and a 1911 45. All ammo is designed to kill. If one runs away from my warnings they're golden. If one proceeds to threaten me or mine despite warnings of me being armed while calling the police, I will shoot to kill as is my right in Michigan.
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  #85  
Old 08-09-2019, 12:23 AM
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Best thing going for the shotgun is that universal sound of the pump action that will send anyone half way in their right mind out the same way they came in. .when I worked sale back in the 80s and some woman came in wanting gun for home protection. When handed a handgun many acted like it was going to bite them. Then I'd grab a 20ga pump and tell her watch the people in the store ,while i racked the action. Always a reaction to the sound.. i could send he home with some thing she wasn't afraid of. ~~JMJ~~
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  #86  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:31 AM
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Robert, you make some good points as does Sophia regarding layered defense. I had a run in several years ago where I held a robber at gun point with the 22 I just happened to have in my truck that day when I rolled into the ranch. Since then I got cameras, road sensors and the counter surveillance has helped keep the criminals away. 10 years before my parents were robbed, a couple guns stolen and dad's shotgun was laying on the bed. My parents were glad they didn't come home to the robbers. While a pistol grip, light, laser, yada, yada, yada are cool and useful the only thing you really need is a reliable gun you are proficient to use. Tactics are more important that equipment. In my case I got the drop on the robber from some distance in the yard where the 22 had an accuracy advantage and a power disadvantage. I didn't know if the robber was armed and I wasn't giving him the opportunity to pull a gun no matter what BS came out of his mouth trying to convince me to take my gun off of him. Robbers will use anything they find against you and lie to manipulate. Money is better spent on a cheap used pump gun and an expensive quick access secure storage system, then cameras and sensors. All too often the armchair warriors want to show off the bells and whistles on their guns to their friends and forget what is most important when buying a gun for defense...… keeping it for your use!
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  #87  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:44 AM
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RFC / Shotgun?

Does anyone else think it's kind of funny that people talk about guns that aren't rim fire on Rim Fire Central.com ? I mean don't get me wrong, I've got shotguns & rifle's that I'd like to talk about too..... but is this the correct website for that?
I think there's a reason they call it Rim Fire Central.com because rim fires are in a completely separate category of their own. It's like talking about Ford's on a Chevy forum. There's a reason it's a Chevy forum... people want to talk about Chevy's not Ford's...
Just my $0.02. Let the criticism begin
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  #88  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Avg_Plinker View Post
Does anyone else think it's kind of funny that people talk about guns that aren't rim fire on Rim Fire Central.com ? I mean don't get me wrong, I've got shotguns & rifle's that I'd like to talk about too..... but is this the correct website for that?
I think there's a reason they call it Rim Fire Central.com because rim fires are in a completely separate category of their own. It's like talking about Ford's on a Chevy forum. There's a reason it's a Chevy forum... people want to talk about Chevy's not Ford's...
Just my $0.02. Let the criticism begin
I think you'll find that this is the reason this post came from the "Those non-rimfire guns" sub-forum.....

Just thinking out loud...
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  #89  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:06 AM
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I think you'll find that this is the reason this post came from the "Those non-rimfire guns" sub-forum.....

Just thinking out loud...
Did you mean; This is the Shotgun Forum?
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  #90  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Avg_Plinker View Post
Does anyone else think it's kind of funny that people talk about guns that aren't rim fire on Rim Fire Central.com ? I mean don't get me wrong, I've got shotguns & rifle's that I'd like to talk about too..... but is this the correct website for that?
I think there's a reason they call it Rim Fire Central.com because rim fires are in a completely separate category of their own. It's like talking about Ford's on a Chevy forum. There's a reason it's a Chevy forum... people want to talk about Chevy's not Ford's...
Just my $0.02. Let the criticism begin
I for one think it is great that members here have place to share their opinions and experience with others on the same forum...I have CF rifles, shotguns and pistols...so if you want to have a discussion about what pistol to buy or shotgun to use from member you trust and want their advice...how is that supposed to happen.

let me see: Hey Bob can you please sign up for Shotgun World so I can ask you a question about a O/U shotgun ??? really. There are a lot of members here who many different hobbies...and this question was in the correct area of this forum and it was not put in the CZ forum.

If this bothers you then maybe you should not look in this section...I have been here for years and there are still places I have not and will not go to on RFC...no interest at all...but as I get older...I just might go to a different section as my hobbies change.

The bottom line is we have Moderators here to move post from the wrong section to the right ones to make it better for all the members here. For a guy who is rated as one of the worse offenders of putting stuff in the wrong area I know they will do what has to be done with me or anyone else here. I have learned to put stuff in the right area...at least I am trying.

I am glad this question was asked and answered by a lot of very knowledgeable people that will help others make the correct decision for them and their families. Because we are like family here and we all want to help guide and teach others to make a better place for all who come here. That is the way I see it and that is why I support RFC with my time and money.

Signalman
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