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  #31  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2HB View Post
The Shockwaves with a green laser are very easy to hit with.

The 20ga is the handiest.
I'm not a shotgun fan for HD but whatever one uses I too strongly suggest getting a laser added to your particular setup. In the middle of the night when the brain is sleep fogged, or whenever, its much easier to concentrate on the dot to the target by pushing s button no matter the carry position of your weapon. JMO and others.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:11 AM
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Aguila mini-shells

For home defense I am not sure I would recommend the 12 ga mini-shells. They are comfortable to shoot and feed well but not as reliably as a full-length (2 & 3/4), and reliability is close to the top of my list. The level of deliverable kinetic energy is very good, not as high as a full-size shotshell but higher than pistol cartridges. The mini-shells fired out of a full-size 12 ga gun have noticeably less recoil, but for home defense I still think I would go for the normal 12 ga shells.

If you do want to try to pump up your round count with the mini-shells, you may be stuck with using a Mossberg 500-series (still not at all a bad choice). I have not seen the adapters to make other brands feed the short Aguila shotshells (has anybody seen feed ramp adapters for other-than-Mossberg?).

Another advantage of NOT using the mini-shells is that normal shotshells are available in many, many more loadings. So far, the Aguila shorties are only available with slugs or with birdshot.

As to 3 inch or 3 & 1/2 inch shells, in any gun, IMHO that is totally unnecessary and overkill. It is also kinda extra loud, extra recoil-ly, and extra over-penetration-y. The KE numbers of your basic 2 & 3/4 shotshell fired through a normal length barrel are waaaaaaay higher than pistol cartridges, and will do just fine unless you expect to be invaded by rhino or Cape Buffalo.
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:59 AM
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Well, I've shot a few scatterguns and either a semi auto or pump gun can work fine. The Mossberg 500 is hard to beat for cost and reliability. It's standard magazine holds 5 rounds vs 4 in a standard Remington. The combo packs with a field and 18 inch cylinder barrel are good do it all choices. A turkey gun with short barrel and screw in chokes would work too. If you get a Mossberg, get an aftermarket steel safety. While the Remington 870 has a long track record with law enforcement it has some disadvantages. One big disadvantage is the way the carrier flops up and down when you load it. If you let the shell slip under stress you may end up with a jam that would require you to take the gun apart. The Mossberg carrier is up until you pump then cycles. Most shotguns have a carrier that moves up and down like the Remington when you load it. Dedicated home defense shotguns with the extended mag tubes are rather nose heavy with open chokes that limit effective range and don't point well.

Your other big question is which gauge. 12 or 20 will do for home defense. 12 has more ammo choices. 20s come in smaller frame guns. Both would be lethal at hallway distances with buckshot. 20 will have a lot less recoil. rc
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:41 AM
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Shotgun for Home Defense? NO!

You should ditch the idea that a shotgun would be good for home defense. They are long and need two hands to operate. How will you clear rooms with the barrel leading the way to be grabbed by a perp and then he will beat you with it?
Shotguns overpenetrate with anything bigger than #8 birdshot at close range. Get some drywall and shoot your intended load through two layers and see the big hole. I've shot through steel refrigerator doors with birdshot at close range.

Get a Glock 19 in 9mm or similar type striker fire pistol with no confusing safeties, put a weapon light greater than 200 lumens but less than 400 lumens (too bright will make you snow blind on the white walls ). It's important to have the light mounted on the gun so when you go to grab it you don't have to look for a light and it frees up your other hand for opening doors, turning on lights, calling LE on the phone, or for combat should you get rushed. Load it with +P Speer Gold Dot (proven track record, just the right penetration). Your hearing will not be lost in a gun battle because of audio exclusion that your body does in a high adrenaline situation ( research post shooting interviews).

A light is important to a house gun as the vermin often come at night and the only defense they have against a bright light is shutting their eyes. Lasers are for teasing the cat or pointing at maps but of no use to identify your intruder. Most people that invade your home are on drugs and could care less what kind of laser you have. Law enforcement does not use lasers, kinda tells you something.

Shotguns are mostly served in a team situation such as dynamic entry or anti vehicular roles. Hollywood has proliferated the deterrent of the racking of a pump gun but you only give away your advantage of surprise by doing so, and they then know what you brung to run also.

If all you are comfortable with is a wheel gun then practice practice practice to overcome it's deficiencies. Get a S&W TRR8 as the increased capacity and pic rail will even the odds. A simple reliable striker fire pistol should be your first choice.
Good luck and hope you never have an encounter but be prepared.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTJ View Post
I recently picked up an H&R single 20 with an 18.5" barrel and a screw in Remchoke installed. I have a modified installed right now but I have full and skeet on hand. I sure would not want that light thing in 12.
I have a 12ga., its a natural for the Mini Shells but honestly a single shot is mostly a novelty, a 20ga Semi with light is at hand in the bedroom in deference to the wife not caring for a 12ga. First up are no.4 shot followed by no. 3 Buck. Immediately at hand is a high cap 9mm with weapons light, if something is obviously inside the house I'll let them come to me. There'll be a large bed between them and me and the wife or I will have the phone (cellular) calling the local PD who know me well. I'll be right there until they arrive and we'll work out the clearing routine then.





It is threaded for choke tubes.

I really don't encourage roaming around in your home looking for bad guys, if the Cops are coming you may bump into them doing the same thing and that makes for a possible tragedy. No one can tell you what you should do, each persons situation is different, and unless you've actually seen the result of a shotgun blast at under 5 yards you've no idea how effective it is. I have and the guy was DRT, although I've been told that was impossible, to my knowledge the guy is still dead.
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
..... I will have the phone (cellular) calling the local PD ...
Which reminds.... don't leave your cellphone on the charger in your mancave. Move the charger to the bedroom.
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  #37  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia View Post
Which reminds.... don't leave your cellphone on the charger in your mancave. Move the charger to the bedroom.
Or do what I do and charge it in the morning during breakfast. Sits on the nightstand at night.
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:39 AM
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It would be best to keep in mind that home defense usually takes place suddenly, INSIDE the home (outside is not usually so dire), where the range is SHORT !



The 20ga Shockwave-type shotgun is much more maneuverable than a full-size gun, and more likely to hit whatever's being defended against than a handgun.


Being enthusiasts, we all like to think that we are shooting aces; but shooting accurately under sudden stressful situations inside your own home is very difficult, sans constant practice in dark, close situations.


Additionally, a light taped to the gun is an excellent way to ensure you don't shoot a loved one by mistake in the dark.


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  #39  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:45 PM
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At my age, skill level & being a non-violent person, I'm more worried about accidentally shooting the cats & dogs . My home defense is predicated upon: (1) living next door to a big ol' Alabama State Trooper with a big ol' Trooper car; (2) being pushed down the stairs by my wife and creating a big commotion; and, (3) having nothing much worth taking that isn't securely locked away.
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2019, 01:11 PM
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I have a Win 12g 1300 Turkey gun with a 22" barrel, one from the second year they were on the market. It resides inside with a cyl choke and 4buck. When ouit in the wilds it goes with me with a tighter choke and again 4 buck. This gun has taken game from the ground to the sky including its original purpose as a turkey getter.

With that said, take a course on home defense using firearms. I had a home defense plan when our daughter was living with us, when she moved it was modified. Once a year at least this was practiced, takes 10 mins at most. This included my wife and a phone along with the street in eyesight for when LE showed up, and they will, which is when you stand down and firearms out of your hands.

ETA - When I was a kid a small corner grocery in the neighborhood got robbed on a hot July day. The assistant manager chased the guy with a shotgun in hand, the cops showed up and called for the weapon to be dropped, the manager turned with the shotgun in hand and was promptly the recipient of a payload of OO buck. Thinking he be bad, he be dead. Something to thunk about.

Last edited by JDWinCO; 08-06-2019 at 01:20 PM.
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  #41  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:03 PM
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  #42  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:44 PM
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I've posted this photo of my favorite shotgun (these days) several times, but not in this thread.



I'm a fan of the semi-auto shotgun for HD. I don't recall ever having a malfunction with a semi-auto shotgun, but have seen several short-strokes and operator errors with pumps when the adrenaline was flowing, and this even among guys who were experienced shooters, but not necessarily a lot of experience with a pump.

For HD, #4 Buckshot is a good choice for minimizing over-penetration if that's a concern. Here's a good video on penetration of building walls. And refrigerators.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI

Last edited by I6turbo; 08-06-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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  #43  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
No one can tell you what you should do, each persons situation is different, and unless you've actually seen the result of a shotgun blast at under 5 yards you've no idea how effective it is. I have and the guy was DRT, although I've been told that was impossible, to my knowledge the guy is still dead.
Impossible? There have been numerous people killed instantly with 7.5's and 8's at close range. Doesn't mean it is going to work every time. You also may need to take a shot in your house at 30 - 40 feet, instead of 15. Anyway, I've shot enough small animals with 6's and 4's to know that they are very "hit or miss" on instant incapacitation, and I figure they aren't going to work any better on larger humans wearing who knows what.

Of course, there is no guarantee a CF round or three will be instantly incapacitating, either. The great thing about a shotgun is, if you are a very good shot with one you have the ability to very quickly get accurate shots off, and you are used to shooting moving targets at various ranges. I just think #4 buck would be a much better choice of projectile in the great majority of situations.
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  #44  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodent shooter View Post
You should ditch the idea that a shotgun would be good for home defense. They are long and need two hands to operate. How will you clear rooms with the barrel leading the way to be grabbed by a perp and then he will beat you with it?
Shotguns overpenetrate with anything bigger than #8 birdshot at close range. Get some drywall and shoot your intended load through two layers and see the big hole. I've shot through steel refrigerator doors with birdshot at close range.
LOL Was this video made specifically for you???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
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  #45  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailDesign View Post
Or do what I do and charge it in the morning during breakfast. Sits on the nightstand at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I6turbo View Post
I've posted this photo of my favorite shotgun (these days) several times, but not in this thread.



I'm a fan of the semi-auto shotgun for HD. I don't recall ever having a malfunction with a semi-auto shotgun, but have seen several short-strokes and operator errors with pumps when the adrenaline was flowing, and this even among guys who were experienced shooters, but not necessarily a lot of experience with a pump.

For HD, #4 Buckshot is a good choice for minimizing over-penetration if that's a concern. Here's a good video on penetration of building walls. And refrigerators.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
My charger is next to the bed on the nightstand. I personally prefer a Pump because I've owned and been issued them most of my life, but the wife isn't so familiar and likes the 20 ga SA Mossberg and I'm good with that.

SP, they said that not me, I was walking around in the guys blood for over an hour, I tried to get the Crime Scene photos to prove a point but the Dept. said no dice, can't really blame them as you get into all kinds of liability issues with stuff like that. If someone prefers a larger shot than me I'm good with it. If one looks at the video (which I enjoyed) you will note that every load fired into the first way basically just made one hole on both sides. Excellent topic, and I enjoy hearing other folks views on it. Hopefully none of us need to put it to use.
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