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  #16  
Old 06-09-2019, 07:59 AM
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Volquartsen Fusion 6,531 rounds.
(Picked up a new barrel). 563 rounds.

Anschutz 1717D 7,993 rounds
(Installed new Lilja barrel). 2,740 rounds.

Anschutz 1727F 2351 rounds.

Total of 20,178 rounds with Zero split necks.

What can I say, just a fact.
Now I also know as a fact that this it does happen once fired, and just siting in a box. Just not to me. Yet...........

Smooth

Oh, and so far I've never see a split case in a box either.
Some of my Hornady V-max is 10 years old (doesn't shoot great in any of my rifles), and some CCI TNT that's 5 years old (shoots great all of my rifles).

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 06-09-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:09 AM
Arrowhead
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I have some 10 year old Hornady 17 gr. left and it has always shot great in my Marlin 917VS. The reason I still have some of is I keep stacking the newer ammo in front of it. I'll dig some of it out and see how it does in my new Contender barrel. I haven't shot nearly as much as you but I've never seen a split 17 case including the empties I see at the range. I'm thinking oversized chambers rather than bad ammo for the most part.
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  #18  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:22 PM
B23
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Split necks are the result of either to much headspace or a brass issue, maybe even a little of both.

If you're getting split necks shoot that same ammo in another 17HMR and see if another gun has the same problem with that ammo then you'll know if it's an ammo issue or gun issue.
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  #19  
Old 06-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B23 View Post
Split necks are the result of either to much headspace or a brass issue, maybe even a little of both.

If you're getting split necks shoot that same ammo in another 17HMR and see if another gun has the same problem with that ammo then you'll know if it's an ammo issue or gun issue.
I would agree with this statement. I am by far no 17HMR expert but I have reloaded for 25+ years and the only split necks I have encountered "new brass" was on the same batch/box and on "old brass" was simply fatigue from reloading so many times over. It would be my guess that if you have a gun that consistently produces split necks it's more likely you have a gun issue rather than ammo issue.

I say this because there are just to many other people who have not had any issues, myself included.
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  #20  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:50 PM
jaia
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Yep... doesn't happen that often, but when it does it occurs in batches.
Hey! Wait a second...they haven't even been fired and they're split.



I know, there I go again... ruining a perfectly good discussion with facts and logic.

Last edited by jaia; 06-09-2019 at 03:01 PM.
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  #21  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Yep... doesn't happen that often, but when it does it occurs in batches.
Hey! Wait a second...they haven't even been fired and they're split.



I know, there I go again... ruining a perfectly good discussion with facts and logic.
That's exactly what I was talking about with the exception of seeing split necks before firing. If that was the "case" lol I would request new ammo from someone. If I couldn't get new ammo I'd just shoot the rounds anyway.

jaia what did you do in this instance?
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  #22  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:33 PM
B23
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Yep... doesn't happen that often, but when it does it occurs in batches.
Hey! Wait a second...they haven't even been fired and they're split.



I know, there I go again... ruining a perfectly good discussion with facts and logic.
That would be a pretty obvious brass/manufacturer issue.

Some top notch quality control if those got packaged and sent out like that.
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  #23  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:58 PM
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Well, it is CCI...and Winchester seems to use even less quality control.

When I find any rimfire cartridges that I feel are unsafe, I take them apart.
Good excuse to see what it looks like inside.
It was how I learned about primer amount and location differences.

Most of the time I discover there's a problem when the first one fired is hard to extract.
Then I start looking at the rest of the box to check for additional hairline cracks.
Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Last edited by jaia; 06-09-2019 at 07:15 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Yep... doesn't happen that often, but when it does it occurs in batches.
Hey! Wait a second...they haven't even been fired and they're split.



I know, there I go again... ruining a perfectly good discussion with facts and logic.
You certainly can't argue with that although I've never seen it. I don't shoot that much 17 HMR anymore so my exposure to the problem is limited to older ammo. I'm guessing someone messed up the annealing process when the cases were formed, that is if 17 HMR cases are even annealed during manufacture. Something is making the brass too brittle to stand the bullet seating process. Maybe the alloy is a little out of kilter.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:51 AM
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A, from what I've read the brass is annealed before the cupping process/rim is formed.
Then the primer is added while the case mouth is still large.
Can't anneal it again before necking it down as the primer is in the brass.
As a result of work hardening and the neck down, it weakens that area.
Seating the bullets is enough to stress the neck and cause fractures.
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:10 AM
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I had the same experience with a recent box of CCI HMR a couple weeks ago . Shot a few rounds and then one case did not extract . I pushed it out with a cleaning rod and found the case was split .

I knew the camber was clean and the CZ 452 has been a proven performer for years . This led me to inspect the rest of my unfired rounds .I found 7 in the box with splits in the necks . Bad batch of ammo for sure .

During this past winter I ran into the same problem with a fresh box of Winchester 17 WSM 20 grn ammo . Contacted them and they wanted it back and sent me a return tag . A week later 2 boxes of new ammo showed up from UPS . Good on their part .
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by natebelle View Post
During this past winter I ran into the same problem with a fresh box of Winchester 17 WSM 20 grn ammo . Contacted them and they wanted it back and sent me a return tag . A week later 2 boxes of new ammo showed up from UPS . Good on their part .
You did well. My experience with a similar problem with cf ammo was less than satisfactory.
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  #28  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:19 PM
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One more contribution to this thread . . . I swapped the barrel on my Sako Quad Range to the 17 HMR and spent some time at the indoor range today shooting at 50 yards. I shot about 150 rounds using the following ammo types (all mfg by CCI): This is all ammo acquired within the last 6-24 months, so the old ammo issue does not come into play. All ammo was inspected for cracks prior to shooting as well.

CCI - A17 Varmint 17 grain BT 2,650 fps - (25) Rounds
CCI - GamePoint 20 grain JSP 2,375 fps - (25) Rounds
Federal - V-Shok 17 grain TNT 2,550 fps - (25) Rounds
Hornday - V-MAX 17 grain BT 2,550 fps - (40) Rounds
Hornady - HP-XTP 20 grain JSP 2,375 fps - (35) Rounds

So this makes the 5th different rifle with these ammo types that have produced split cases for me and yes the rifle actions & barrels are cleaned after each use.

Sako Quad Range - 22" factory barrel
Steyr Zephyr II - 22.5" factory barrel
CZ 452 Lux - 24" factory barrel
CZ 453 Varmint - 20.9" factory barrel
CZ 455 Varmint - 20.5" factory barrel

I guess none of these mfg know how to cut a 17 HMR chamber in a barrel -

Out of this shooting session ( 150 rounds ) there were 14 obvious splits in cases and another 8 that had very small cracks barely noticeable, but it was there when one looked under magnification which, calculates out to 14.5% which is about the average I have experienced across all ammo types over the past couple of years that I have paid attention. I also chronographed these rounds but have not yet downloaded and/or looked at the min/max/avg & extreme spread of each ammo type.

While I do not doubt that many have never seen a split case . . . I refuse to believe that 5 different rifles from 3 different mfg do not know how to cut a 17 HMR chamber or that I was unlucky enough to get 5 rifles with bad chambers. CCI did admit one could get case splits based on the process to build the rounds . . . they just would not "state" it was a problem.

"For those of you encountering split cases... CCI makes the cases for all the .17 HMR ammo and loads it for the different companies. When they make the cases they draw the case out to a .22mag case that has a straight wall. Then the priming compound is put in the rim of the case. The case is spun to put the primer evenly in the rim. (Evenly my foot . . .)

After the priming is complete the case mouth is reduced to the .17 calibre to hold the bullet. The reduction process, however, puts stress on the neck of the case. They obviously cannot anneal the neck of the case to relieve the stress because of the compound in the rim, so from time to time you will get a case that cracks. Some batches may produce more splits than others. The chamber pressure on .17 ammo is so low that it does not hurt the chamber on the rifle.

They have tried to anneal the cases more before it's formed to .17, but this did not eliminate the cracks altogether. If the cracks were minor I would continue to use the ammo. The cracks do not affect the accuracy of the round and the brass is not reloadable.

Bob Palmer, Hornady Ammunition."


Bottom line for me - 17 HMR ammo is consistently inconsistent and I do not like shooting this ammo . . . even though everyone says it's not a problem. For sure I will not be letting my grandkids shoot any of the rifles. It just makes me feel better and better about my acquisition of the CZ 527 Varmint - 17 Hornet.
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  #29  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:07 PM
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A light bulb went off in my head today when I realized I had two removed barrels to show this.
Doesn't explain the new in box split cases, but may be informative for fired rounds.

Over the last several years I've collected fired cases from a number of other .17hmr's.
They included cases from Savege's, CZ's, and one Browning.

None of those cases would even come close to chambering in my my original Anschutz barrel.
However it was much closer in my Volquartsen Semi-Auto. It could actually bash the case into the chamber.
But after bashing it in, the Volquartsen could not extract it.

What does that tell me?
Most manufactures may cut a very loose chamber in order to be sure that they don't experience an out of battery explosion in Semi-Autos, and perhaps to be extra safe in Bolt Action rifles.

Savage case in my Anschutz. (Slightly tapped in).
Savage case in my Volquartsen (Again slightly tapped in).

I would have shown the CZ cases but they were essentially the same.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 06-11-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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  #30  
Old 06-13-2019, 01:52 AM
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My Sako Quad hasn't had a split case yet.

And doesn't have accuracy problems a lot of you have encountered.

That's the problem with buying crap quality guns at a bargain basement prices and expecting the world outa them.
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