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Old 04-20-2019, 12:36 PM
Watsky
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Anyone using HV for 100 yd target shooting?



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Any one here using HV for going past 50 yards ?
I shoot outdoors at a 100 yards and was getting a bunch of drift with a steady breeze last time I was at the range.
Thought that some HV might help resist the wind.
Any thoughts on that .
I know that its a good idea to keep things subsonic for target accuracy but this wind deal makes me think that some extra velocity might be a good thing.
I've got lots of SV around here , no HV to speak of .
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:48 PM
jaia
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Testing done shows supersonic 22lr is subject to increased wind drift.
As a result most target shooting is done with subsonic 22lr.
Claims of supersonic transition being a problem are questionable.
My results at 200 yards don't support the purported loss of accuracy.
Instead what I found was cartridge defects, MV spread and wind being the cause
of my vertical and horizontal spread on target. Eley Force did decent at 200 yards.
Not as good as true match quality ammo, but decent.

Target and chronograph results at 200 yards, compare for yourself

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1129343


At 100 yards, time of flight allows wind drift, aerodynamics and gravity to affect trajectories.
Match grade 22lr ammo will have an MV spread of less than 40 fps.
At 100 yards, 10 fps difference between 2 shots produces 1/4 inch of vertical spread.
Cartridge defects can cause wild strays that follow no predictable pattern.
The majority of hi-v 22lr is bulk ammo and is the reason for it's lack of consistent results on target.

Last edited by jaia; 04-20-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsky View Post
Any one here using HV for going past 50 yards ?
Nope, never. Wind drift is less with standard velocity ammo.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:15 PM
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What jaja said - that's a good list.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:19 PM
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I haven shot 100yds outdoors for a long time, but I used to see my best results with an Izhmash Biathlon Basic and CCI Sidewinder HV ammo.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:52 PM
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One could do far worse than looking at Jaia's results and taking his recommendations.
Cut to the chase, avoid the frustration, try what Da Man says
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Old 04-20-2019, 04:20 PM
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I you attend a smallbore prone match you will find 100% of the competitors using standard velocity ammo.

These matches consist of 100 shots at 50 yd and 60 at 100 yd.

With centerfire higher muzzle velocity usually means less wind drift.

But it has been proven that with .22 LR standard velocity has less wind drift than high velocity. It may not make sense but that's the way it is.
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Old 04-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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This thread has some pretty good info on the subject.

Wind drift Std. Vel. vs. High Velocity ammo

A couple of the posts even make sense.
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Old 04-20-2019, 04:27 PM
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that's one long list !

Looks like Eley Tenex is doing pretty good.
I'll take some time and go over the whole thing .
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:11 PM
jaia
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Buy a few boxes of rimfire and shoot them.
Record the ammo used and the results.
Try another brand, repeat.
Shooting at extended range will teach you more than anything I can offer.
It won't take long to learn why bulk ammo is not for precision target work.
It will teach you why the high end subsonic 22lr is preferred for long range use.
Use a ballistic chronograph every trip to the range and you'll learn if it was you,
or the ammunition that caused the strays.

Last edited by jaia; 04-20-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:58 AM
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Wind drift is related to the amount of CHANGE in velocity between muzzle and target and HV loses more fps than SV. I can't explain that but have read well-reasoned explanations of it and I believe it.

I have a copy of a study done by the Army in 1990 which tested Eley Tenex at muzzle velocities between 1090 and 800 fps. They found the least wind drift with a MV of 950 fps and it was 20% less than at 1090 fps.

That study was sent to me by Noremf, who is no longer with us, because it also supports his argument that the transonic range is not a big deal with regards to accuracy. I'm not going to argue with it or his soul but I shoot subsonic anyway.

However, I have a theory that HV will work better for some shooters in circumstances like silhouette matches. In those matches you shoot at four very different distances and it's important to have zeroed well at all of them. The flatter trajectory of HV is more forgiving of errors in zeroing and that might more than compensate for greater wind drift and any transonic effects for some shooters.

Last edited by CardPuncher; 04-21-2019 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 12:52 PM
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In our experience at scaled properly for 200yd. sil. HV is not an asset.
Some have tried figuring the extra oomph would help knock off the rams, ummm maybe, but no where near enough points there to make up for the wide dispersion of the poor quality hv ammo resulting in, not marginal hits, but misses.
More bullet weight is better than a bit more velo, so use the heavy 22LR SV or SS that group well into the 'kill zone'; ie, center of mass or just a tad higher than center.
Once you get some switchy wind(s) and mirage and mix in some operator error you dont want to be trying to make sloppy made ammo do the job.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CardPuncher View Post
Wind drift is related to the amount of CHANGE in velocity between muzzle and target and HV loses more fps than SV. I can't explain that but have read well-reasoned explanations of it and I believe it.

However, I have a theory that HV will work better for some shooters in circumstances like silhouette matches. In those matches you shoot at four very different distances and it's important to have zeroed well at all of them. The flatter trajectory of HV is more forgiving of errors in zeroing and that might more than compensate for greater wind drift and any transonic effects for some shooters.
Your theory interests me because I intend to shoot silhouette matches.
Seems reasonable although the MV stats also get my attention.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
In our experience at scaled properly for 200yd. sil. HV is not an asset.
Some have tried figuring the extra oomph would help knock off the rams, ummm maybe, but no where near enough points there to make up for the wide dispersion of the poor quality hv ammo resulting in, not marginal hits, but misses.
More bullet weight is better than a bit more velo, so use the heavy 22LR SV or SS that group well into the 'kill zone'; ie, center of mass or just a tad higher than center.
Once you get some switchy wind(s) and mirage and mix in some operator error you dont want to be trying to make sloppy made ammo do the job.
SV in more than 40gr. ?
I'll look into that .
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:41 PM
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Could have probably said it better; used 'heavy' as an adjective pertaining specifically to the 40gr. SV vs the other weights used in HP, etc. in HV and HyperV.
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