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  #1  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:39 PM
mtiehen

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New BMAG.. Super shooter...but...



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Bought a HB 17 WSM Savage in the plastic stock today. Thought if it didn't shoot, I'd play with it to try to get it shooting.

Cleaned the barrel with Balistol and ran 5 dry patches though it. Loosened the action screws and re-torqued to 15 in lbs. Greased up the bolt a bit, and mounted a Leupold MK4 scope.

Took it to the range with a box of Win 20 and 25 gr.

Set up 10 1" orange dots on a big white sheet of paper, and set up my rest at 100 yards on a concrete bench.

Bore sighted it, and then first shot (25 gr.) was exactly under the target (right/left) and about 1 ft. low.

Dialed 12 clicks up and the next four shots were 1" high and zero right/left. The 4 shots were .720" ctc. Hey ... pretty decent! Loaded those single shot ... not from the mag. All shots single shot loaded from this session.

Next group (5 shots) were .790". Was a bit gusty too at the range.

Shot a 5 shot group of the 20 gr. and 5 shots in 1.385. OK... It likes the 25 gr from a cold barrel I suppose. I was shooting one round every 2 minutes or so.

Curious thing though, the first round of the 20 gr., the bolt handle was very hard to lift up from the closed position after the shot. HMMM? I marked that empty, and shot the other 4 rounds without the handle stiffness issue. The shot didn't "feel" different, and the gun didn't recoil differently that I could tell.

None of the 25 gr shots had a stiff handle.

I did go back to 200 yards and shot from a concrete bench. Without changing the scope, the first 4 shots (25 gr.) were 3.5" low and directly below the target (right/left). The wind was picking up and gusting then, but the first 4 rounds went into 1.180". I was using video tape scrap wind flags and, the 5th shot opened it up to ~4", but I caught that last one when the flags were standing straight out.

I shot another 200 yard 5 shot group and all 5 measured 1.993", but the wind was blowing hard and I couldn't read the flags as they were flapping all over the place. I think it shoots great! I've shot smaller 100 yard groups with a 17 HMR in calm conditions, but the 200 yard HMR groups don't come close to this WSM.

This evening, I had a look at the empties, measured them and compared them to the stiff one, and there were tiny variances among all of them but nothing stood out. Case length, rim thickness, rim diameter, case diameter just below the rim... nothing of note. I even had a real close look at the primer indentation thinking it might have been a stuck firing pin, but no difference. I did recall reading in one of the WSM posts about a hard to lift handle occasionally, but can't find it now.

So I'd like to figure that one out. If it happens again, I'll mark the target with a notation so I can see if those shots are flying outside of the group. (See last sentence in this post...)

I have been studying the bolt mechanism, and since I have had a few .22 lr guns built by some of the best smiths, I'm wondering of that tiny firing pin point is giving good ignition on that wsm round. I already have plans to make a couple pins with either a spade/blade point or a blunt, full diameter point.

Here are the case heads from the 20 gr shells:

The red stripe indicates the case when the handle was very stiff to lift.

The photo (attached... I think) looks kinda like the heads are bulging, but they are not. Just a discoloration of the brass head. Dead flat.

Any other ideas about the small primer impact point?

Added: I did go back to the shop and had another look at the target and remember now that the first shot of the 20 gr at 100 yds. was low and right from the other 4 shots. Toss out that first shot and the 4 went into .7075". Maybe the 20 gr. are good too... if the bolt sticking deal doesn't appear again.
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File Type: jpg 17 wsm cases..jpg (365.8 KB, 39 views)
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:52 PM
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Al the Infidel
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Its new and should improve. Good shooting!
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:09 AM
B23
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Congrats on the good shooting Bmag but if you don't mind, maybe keep it on the down low that you have a Bmag that shoots well. See, if we keep everyone thinking these Bmags are a no good POS that don't shoot it'll keep the prices down and there will always be lots of cheap 17 WSM ammo on the shelves. Well, that and it really hurts the feelings of the Ruger 17 WSM owners that spent double what you did for a gun that generally only shoots on par at best.

As for the occasional heavy bolt lift, I get that from time to time on my HB SS Bmag as well.

Also, if you have any questions regarding the Savage Bmag fan club, Al the Infidel is out Chapter El Presidente and he'll be happy to get you signed up.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:18 AM
Independence
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When I shoot 20gr, the heads of the cases bulge, visibly, and I experience the same heavy bolt lift. This does not happen w/ the 25gr.

Mine shoots 25gr more accurately so that's what I've stuck with.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B23 View Post
Also, if you have any questions regarding the Savage Bmag fan club, Al the Infidel is out Chapter El Presidente and he'll be happy to get you signed up.
One thing I've learned is to delegate authority. Now that y'all have signed on I'll refer your heavy bolt lift questions to B23 for pontification. because I don't know
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:28 PM
Glass37
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The firing pin hit looks good, I see no mention of misfires.
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:47 PM
mtiehen

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Quote:
Originally Posted by B23 View Post
As for the occasional heavy bolt lift, I get that from time to time on my HB SS Bmag as well.
Iíd really like to figure out that one though. I studied the bolt and receiver lockup, and canít understand how the bolt could be difficult to open after a shot.

I measured all 5 spent cases (20 gr.) in every way I could think of, and there are very minor differences among them. The one that was hard to open had a dead flat base, so no bulging. I chambered it again this am, pulled the trigger, and no bolt binding.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:10 PM
mtiehen

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Laundry list of things I feel my rifle needs:

1. Buy/make a benchrest stock.
2. Going to look the trigger over to see if I can add a sear engagement adjustment.
3. Make a single shot insert.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:27 PM
B23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
One thing I've learned is to delegate authority. Now that y'all have signed on I'll refer your heavy bolt lift questions to B23 for pontification. because I don't know

Ahhh, now Al you're just being mean spirited and hurtful. Typical abuse of power.
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:34 PM
B23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiehen View Post
Laundry list of things I feel my rifle needs:

1. Buy/make a benchrest stock.
2. Going to look the trigger over to see if I can add a sear engagement adjustment.
3. Make a single shot insert.
Can't help you with 1 and 3 but I can tell you the trigger in these Bmags respond quite well to a little work. Mine had a good amount of creep/pretravel and wouldn't adjust down nearly as low as I wanted. Took it apart, touched up the contact surfaces as well as shortened the springs, I now have a trigger that breaks a little under 2lbs with no hint of creep.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:41 AM
mtiehen

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I did a trigger mod on the HHBSS that made it a super crisp trigger:

I have always removed the silver/red safety blade from the three other Savage rifles I have purchased. I don't like the feel of the wobbly blade, and all these rifles are bench/prairie dog guns anyway... not carried loaded.

I didn't polish or change any angles or change the trigger weight spring on the HBSS WSM.

I could have annealed the forward extension of trigger below the sear, drilled and tapped for a set screw, then re-harden the part, but decided I'd wait to see if the gun does what I want in the near short term.

I did add a glob of 24 hr. epoxy to the forward extension of the trigger and when cured, trimmed it down in steps to get the sear engagement I wanted. I roughed up that area of the trigger and degreased it before mixing up the epoxy. Took 3 tries to get the height correct.

The last photo shows the first trimming. I trimmed it after it had set up but not fully cured.

Passed the bump and slam bolt test.

Added: Checked the trigger weight with a RCBS Trigger gauge... 20 oz. measured 5 times ... Which is 1 lb. 4 oz. Zero creep.

There is no side load on the epoxy, and if it should wear, the sear engagement will only get ""safer" and deeper.

Next up: A single shot adapter...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0785.JPG (89.9 KB, 448 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0786.JPG (68.5 KB, 444 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0787.JPG (43.8 KB, 446 views)

Last edited by mtiehen; 09-16-2018 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Spelling... and aded trigger weight info...
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2018, 06:40 PM
mtiehen

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Not to wear this thread out, but returned a while ago from the range.

Trigger is exactly how I like it!

Could only shoot out to about 165 yards... the 200 yard benches were in an area that doesn't drain too well, and was super muddy, so I didn't want to haul my stuff there.

Shot off a bipod on a shooting mat.

All groups were ~1.25", with almost always 4 inside ~.85", and one "uh oh?" per 5-shot group.

I shot only the 25 Gr. Winchester as I bought a bunch of the same lot# after my first outing.

I also didn't bring my wind flags because I didn't have much time. (Wife wants a movie and dinner tonight!) The wind was gentle and consistent (3-5) from left to right.

I shot 9 five shot groups in about 45 minutes, then waited about 20 minutes for it to cool off before shooting the last 5 shot group. The "uh ohs" started to get a bit worse as the barrel heated up.

While it was cooling off, I shot 2 five shot groups from my Savage M12 HB .204. As fun as this WSM is, that .204 is really something. I didn't take picts of those targets, but they were tiny.

Picts below ... I was changing my hold point with the mil dots trying to dope the wind ... I suppose that's why the groups are floating around the target. Last pict is the last group shot, holding 3 mil dots low as I had shot up the 9 target stickers I stuck down. (For some reason these targets are rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0788.JPG (42.7 KB, 430 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0789.JPG (77.0 KB, 435 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0790.JPG (68.5 KB, 432 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0791.JPG (43.8 KB, 432 views)
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2018, 08:01 PM
jaia
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Y'er having way too much fun tinkering with the new rifle.
These cartridges heat that barrel up fast. I take 10 shots,
then wait for the barrel to cool back down. Hasn't affected accuracy
as I don't let it reach a temperature where it's painful to touch.
Just means I have time to relax and record chronograph data.
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:37 PM
mtiehen

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Had a range session again tonight.

I mounted a different scope, as I wanted to replace the MK4 scope on my .223 Tikka.

I put a Mueller 8.5-32X40 of of an air rifle I have, onto the WSM, and boresighted it at 100 yards.

Took only about 10 clicks down and 5 left to get it boresighted.

First 5 shots were with the 20 gr. Winchester to foul the squeaky clean bore.
First shot was off right by about 1.5". 2nd shot walked left about 3/4". Last 3 were cloverleaf touching another 1/2" left.

Changed to the 25 gr. and only wanted to work on technique:

100 yards: First group --

http://www.tko22.com/17WSM/IMG_0823.JPG

Using a gentle but firm hold on the rifle of about a 4 out of 10... 10 being a death grip. Also all groups shot from a front machine rest, rear leather bag, and the front rest placed just in front of the magazine. All groups shot single loaded.

2nd group:

http://www.tko22.com/17WSM/IMG_0824.JPG

Shot "Free recoil". Only squeezing the trigger and trigger guard. No other pressure on the rifle. EEK!

3rd Group:



http://www.tko22.com/17WSM/IMG_0825.JPG

Changed thumb position to over the top of the grip of instead of on top by the safety.

4th Group:

http://www.tko22.com/17WSM/IMG_0826.JPG

Gripped tight with the stock pulled back into my shoulder firmly (7 out of 10.)

Action is yet to be bedded, but I think I'll wait until I get back from a quick prairie dog hunt this weekend. Still not sure I'm going to get a Boyds stock or not. I've been shopping for a used BR stock I can Bondo up and make it how I want it.

Conclusion ... the plastic stock is very hold sensitive.

I did make a prototype single shot "adapter", but more work on it is needed.

All these photos are rotated 90* counterclockwise for some reason.....?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0823.JPG (53.3 KB, 386 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0824.JPG (59.8 KB, 379 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0825.JPG (101.1 KB, 385 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0826.JPG (66.5 KB, 383 views)

Last edited by mtiehen; 09-19-2018 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Added uploaded picts so registered users don't have to click the URL to see them. Maybe RFC should allow inline photos???
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:11 AM
jaia
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Conclusion: the Tupperware stock is intended to increase the profit margin for Savage,
not produce consistent trajectories as it changes shape every time you touch it.

The injection molded thermoplastic is difficult to reinforce.
It's a soft material, too much flex.

for y'er perusal...

https://www.chuckhawks.com/injection-molded_stocks.htm

Last edited by jaia; 09-20-2018 at 08:04 AM.
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