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  #31  
Old 12-25-2015, 08:38 AM
Donut77donut

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCEGUY01 View Post
So...

I have shot about everything mentioned in this thread.
I hold an 07/02 FFL so its a bit easier for me to try out most stuff.

Personally Id stay away from any of the "wonder" cans. Anything designed to do everything doesnt do any one thing well. Ive not been impressed with any of them yet.

My favorites are the integral 22's. Not ideal though unless you already have several others.

Heres my advice for a new shooter getting into NFA stuff.

1. Specwar 7.62. Great bullet proof can from a great company etc... Can easily get 5/8" and 1/2" muzzle devices and easily switch between hosts.
Really an Indestructible can. Ive had them glowing bright orange on full auto with no ill effects. If youre not ever going to go the SBR route you could go Omega here instead but I still like the Specwar better. It just flat out sounds better.
This one can will work great on all the .30 cal rifles and works pretty dang good on the 5.56 etc...

2. Rimfire can. The most fun can you can get.
My favorites are the Dead Air MASK... followed by the Sico Spectre II then everything else far behind.
I have several and the Integrals sound better but you are limited to just the one gun that way though.


3. Sico Octane or Osprey in .45 or 9mm. If you shoot 45 that makes it easier. If youre never going to shoot 45 than just go 9mm.
Subsomic 300 and 38/357 will sound great through it.
Dont buy it for .300blk alone though, the 7.62 can will sound better for that purpose.


45 sounds like a paintball gun through my Osprey but the rifle cans and rimfire cans by far get the most usage.

5.56 suppresses pretty terrible no matter what you hear or read on the net. Even with a can I wouldn't shoot any of my AR's without hearing protection. .308 and .300 black sounds pretty good especially subsonic 300 BLK. My Handi Rifle is Movie quiet with a Specwar or Saker.

If you have any specific questions feel free to shoot me a PM. I can prob save you some $ on whatever you go with as long as you have a Local SOT to handle the transfer.
Have you shot the Optimus? It's pretty new and first hand feedback would be great. I agree a Mystic X or something is lacking, but the Optimus seems to have a lot going for it on paper. Also curious about first hand experience with the Rugged Razor or Sandman S...

Last edited by Donut77donut; 12-25-2015 at 08:48 AM.
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2015, 09:38 AM
PewMcPewerton

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut77donut View Post
Out of curiosity why won't you do business with Griffin?
It's 3oz heavier than the octane when in pistol configuration...
I'm not a Gemtec fanboy... But like you said YMMV
Silencers are about compromises... price, mounts, weight, size, and sound reduction are all factors to compare and take into account. You need to determine what features are important to yourself. And we should also point out most centerfire cans aren't generally hearing safe decibel wise.
Their rabid wamnabe-oper8tor marketing is a bit distasteful although it's essentially industry standard, but the racist "FRONT TOWARD ARABS" endcaps make gun owners look bad. I don't need anything they make if that's how they'll market themselves, even if they put out a can that will give 40dB reduction on every caliber in the world.

The Optimus isn't heinous heavy, but it's heavier than other pistol cans and doesn't meter as well. It meters well below competing .308 cans and isn't rated for shorter barrels. You're paying $1000 for a subpar 9mm can that's also a subpar .300WM can, and it doesn't come with all the parts at that price.

If the Optimus meets your needs, that's good, but I have the same problem with it that I have with the Mystic. I spent $1500 before tax stamps on my Gemtech HVT, Osprey 45, and Spectre II, so $2100 to cover all my bases. I could have gone cheaper, but the first time I shot the Osprey next to a Mystic I was very impressed with the handling and signature difference. Ditto when I threw my HVT on a short-barreled AR15 in a matter of seconds. The other fellow had to carefully disassemble a hot suppressor, swap parts out, and carefully reassemble the can, and then mount it. Ditto for switching to rimfire, although I had to deal with hot can when I went from my 22/45 to Savage MkII, the weight and bulk difference between the Spectre II and the Mystic was night and day, almost twice the weight and length, and it still wasn't as quiet. Ever try shooting a rimfire pistol with a 1.5" diameter can on it? The irons are useless...and hanging that much weight on a rimfire rifle was absolutely silly.

The Optimus seems like it night address some of those issues, but not all. I also haven't seen any independent metering yet, and Griffin has only published numbers in their promo video, not in any hard material. Rumor mill says 22dB, and that's just disappointing, but only time will tell.

TL;DR it's less like getting 3 suppressors for the price of one, and more like getting three cheap, underperforming suppressors on one tax stamp, and it's important to keep in mind that you have to manually swap parts on it whenever you want to switch guns or calibers, which means handling hot steel if you want to switch during a day of shooting.

ETA: If I had to make specific recommendations, the Spectre II and the Sparrow SS are the bee's knees for rimfire up through 5.7, but I haven't shot Dead Air stuff yet.

I wouldn't buy the HVT again, but the newest generation of modular Silencer Co .30 cans weren't out when I did purchase. I hear good things about the Harvester for a hunting can, but it depends on what you're looking for in a .30 can, as they aren't as suited for higher volume shooting.

I generally recommend a .45 can like the Octane for handguns, because you never know when you're going to want a .44 Mag Thumper build on a Marlin 1894, or when you're going to accidentally buy a P220 and want to suppress it. If you're absolutely wiling to gamble the cost of another pistol can later that you'll never want to go above 9mm, then stick with 9s. Silencers hop is blowing out some of the older generation stuff, so there are Gemtech Tundra 9s for $432. If you wait and watch, you can find Octane 9s for $500-ish. I have $1100 in an MP5 clone with an AAC Striker II on it, and that includes both tax stamps. NFA stuff doesn't command much on the used market, if you're confident you can use a borescope to look for baffle strikes or erosion.

Last edited by PewMcPewerton; 12-25-2015 at 09:51 AM.
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  #33  
Old 12-25-2015, 10:18 AM
NYCEGUY01

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I havent been super impressed with the Rugged yet. I have the Surge in the safe.
I dont have a Sandman S but I have the L and the Ti.

The L is my go to 7.62 can. My 12" 308 wears it always.

I really like it and Dead Air has no Barrel length restrictions. Also super tough can.

Id go with it over the Specwar or Saker personally but for the price the Specwar cant be beat.


As far as the Optimus... I havent shot one and wont be ordering one...
Ive gotten burned enough times by the gimmicks in the past.

Pick a can that does one thing well and shoot it. Again, the Do-All stuff never seems to do any specific thing very well. Just too much compromise.

Last edited by NYCEGUY01; 12-25-2015 at 10:21 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-25-2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCEGUY01 View Post
5.56 suppresses pretty terrible no matter what you hear or read on the net. Even with a can I wouldn't shoot any of my AR's without hearing protection.
.223/5.56 AR's require double hearing protection to be hearing safe. That can be any two of the three listed: Muffs, plugs and/or silencer.

For a 5.56 can I went with the Liberty Triumph. It is lightweight and as quiet as the rest, without all the weight and expense of the QA/QD setups. It is still in jail but I'm looking forward to dropping another 5 ounces off the nose of my AR compared to the Mystic I'm running now. For a while it wore a Liberty HATE ring which adapts the SilencerCo MAAD setup, but that whole thing added almost 5 ounces over the direct thread module from Liberty.

Back to the AR; I plan to never shoot a 5.56 AR unsuppressed again if I can help it. I'm mostly a .22lr guy but there are times the much faster 22 caliber projectile is needed. Like launching tennis balls or hitting steel at 500 yards.

I find the folks knocking the "do all" cans have never tried one of the current crop. My Mystic has been on everything from a 10/22, M11 machine gun in both 9mm and .22lr, XDm, AR 9mm SBR, 16" 5.56 AR, bolt action 300blk, and when the adapter gets here my precision AR will never be fired without this can on it.

The Triumph is 5 or 6 dB more quiet than the Mystic, which is a difference, but not as huge as one might think. As a subjective test a buddy with a 11.5" 5.56AR with a 556 Saker, stood next to me and we took turns firing. My 16" AR had the 9mm Mystic. Everyone agreed they were about the same volume but mine sounded better, probably from the larger volume. Of course the longer barrel helped equalize the volume, but the point is not everyone needs 6 cans.

If I could only have one .22lr can, I think the Sparrow SS would be the last one to go. It isn't the most quiet, heck it doesn't do anything best, other than come apart every time real easy. I ran 410 rounds full auto through my Sparrow this morning. Didn't bother cracking it loose while warm. I know it will just fall apart when I'm ready.

Last edited by 98_1LE; 12-25-2015 at 01:48 PM.
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2016, 01:34 AM
glocker17
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Octane

If I was buying an Octane again I would get the 45 K model and just buy the extra 9mm endcap to use when shooting the smaller calibers. It will keep a few db from slipping out past the larger bore.
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  #36  
Old 01-05-2016, 09:59 AM
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Glocker I've got a standard Octane 45 and know that the end cap is easy to remove and replace but wasn't aware they sold them as accessories. How do I get a 9mm end cap?

Thanks
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:24 AM
parshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasDoc View Post
Glocker I've got a standard Octane 45 and know that the end cap is easy to remove and replace but wasn't aware they sold them as accessories. How do I get a 9mm end cap?

Thanks
I've seen them described as exclusive to Silencer Shop but they list them as Out Of Stock.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2016, 01:07 PM
parshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parshooter:
.
It is perfectly legal to build your own suppressor, with an approved Form 1 in-hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98_1LE View Post
Legal yes, advisable no. The problem is as a maker (manufacturers paid the tax to be an 07/02) you can make it exactly once. If damaged you cannot repair it; only an 07/02 can. And they often won't work on form 1 cans because they don't know how it was engineered.

The only exception is if you spend days a week working in a machine shop making precision things. Otherwise buy commercial, IMO.
.
"Advisable no"? Bologny. So what if you can't repair it? You can't repair a can that cost $1,300 either. You might be surprised to learn what components are available for the Form 1 builder, how easy they are to assemble (for even a non-machinist), how effective they are, and how many several hundreds of dollars one could save by going that route. But we can't discuss that here.

The subject is "School Me On Suppressors." I'm not necessarily advocating that a noob build their first can. I would recommend a major-manufacturer rimfire suppressor to start. From there it depends on what guns a person owns and how they intend to use it (ie hunt or not).

The statement is factually correct - It is perfectly legal to build your own suppressor. Some here don't seem to know this.

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  #39  
Old 01-05-2016, 01:21 PM
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I have a pretty good idea of the parts available, and some of the stories (like sending the completed suppressor back to the "parts maker" (not an 07/02) because the parts weren't concentric.

You are correct that I cannot work on a commercial can, but plenty of 07/02's can and will. Most want no part of a form 1 can.

In the end the suppressor parts and "solvent traps" are really just traps IMO. BATFE shut SWD down for the same thing in the 80's; silencer kits.

That is my opinion and I stand by it.
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  #40  
Old 01-05-2016, 09:38 PM
glocker17
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9mm Endcap

Quote:
Glocker I've got a standard Octane 45 and know that the end cap is easy to remove and replace but wasn't aware they sold them as accessories. How do I get a 9mm end cap?
You can order one for about $70

http://www.silencershop.com/accessor...9-end-cap.html
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