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  #16  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Do all/most full autos use a counter weighted bolt like this?
No. Most machine guns are either closed bolt locked breech (e.g. M16), or open bolt blowback (e.g. Thompson, Mac/M11, Uzi).

The 10/22 kit is unique that is it closed bolt blowback operated. The weight in the bolt is designed to prevent the bolt from bouncing, by slamming into the bolt just after the bolt closes. This is to make sure the bolt is closed when the hammer comes forward. If the bolt is not closed, the hammer won't get a full/good strike.
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:17 PM
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The Norrell trigger pack does lock the bolt closed , With the detent in the front of housing does it not?
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2015, 06:17 PM
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By detent do you mean the silver lever stickup up from the trigger group?

I'm not sure, but believe that would be the disconnector, basically the switch that releases the hammer when the bolt is fully closes.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2015, 06:55 PM
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I believe he is referring to the spring-loaded ball detent next to the ejector.

There is a matching slot for it in the bolt.

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  #20  
Old 10-11-2015, 07:13 PM
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Years ago a new manufacturer of 10/22 accessories sent me his best hammer/sear combo to test for him. Both hammer and sear were adjustable! I was using my 1976 Carbine that was pretty much stock. This was about 2005.

I was at the range to mainly shoot another bolt action project and had the place to myself. It started raining and then turned into a deluge. Under the steel roof it was as almost unbelievably loud. I figured I would wait it out but would try the trigger.

Not really aiming I pointed it down range and touched the trigger. Ziip! "What the heck?" I said out loud. 9 rounds and a stoppage so fast I could not get my finger off the trigger. Loaded another 10 rounds. Zip! all 10 down range. I was a little paranoid but I could not hear anything else due to very hard rain, figured "Why not he wants me to test this thing".

I took the trigger assy apart and adjusted the hammer AND the sear as far out as I could. ZIP!! 10 rounds. Next one was 9. Another 9. Then 10. And so on. I think if I had the mag spring turned tighter it would have done 10 every time.

Well I could not stand it so I shot several hundred rounds until the rain let up and it was great. The cycle rate was unbelievable!! I could not shoot a burst in a normal way but if I just "slapped" the trigger it was 3-4 rounds. I mean that as the very quickest way I could touch the trigger without actually squeezing it. Normal trigger application meant empty mag no matter how quick I tried to lift my finger.

I am NOT a believer in the 22 lr as a defense (or offense) round but one of these would be devastating at 100 yards and less. It was easy to keep all ten rounds into a 12" circle at 100 yards even in a driving rain and that was well under 1 second as far as I can tell.

Being paranoid about legal issues I took the rifle apart and the hammer went into the trunk and the sear into the glove box. I even mailed them back to him in separate shipping envelopes. He got the back and put them in his rifle and got a crisp 1.5-2.5 lb trigger He said he tried his hardest and could not make it full auto (I think he was secretly jealous).

We started comparing things and my early trigger housing was VERY different. His was crisply molded and mine looked fat and almost organic. Turns out the center to center on the holes in the housing is different in the old style housing. Since then others have reported several different makers hammers and sears getting doubles and triples in old housings

If you have an old rifle from the 60's or at least mid 70's beware just buying new parts for them. Either have your whole assy reworked by someone that knows what they are doing oe get a newer housing because the BATFE frowns on ANY firearm that fires more than one round with one pull of the trigger. They even prosecuted a gunsmith that had a customer double barrel shotgun with worn parts that was firing both barrels!!

At the same time they announced his arrest my gunsmith friend had a 10 gauge double in his shop that was doing the same thing. I watched him shoot it the first time and thought "Man does that thing throw a lot of shot downrange!!" while he was thinking "Wow that SOB kicks like a freaking mule!!" Of course we asked a couple friends to test fire it! The reaction was always the same. At first they were stunned a 10 kicked that hard. Then they opened it and TWO empties came out!

By the way the gunsmith won his case but it ruined him as it took all the money his shop was worth and then some to beat the case against him.

Be very careful if you decide to screw around with your 10/22!!
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2015, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
...
I am NOT a believer in the 22 lr as a defense (or offense) round but one of these would be devastating at 100 yards and less. It was easy to keep all ten rounds into a 12" circle at 100 yards even in a driving rain and that was well under 1 second as far as I can tell. ...
I've had more than one 10/22 project do double and triple tap bursts when the springs were too light. Replacement of those solved the issue, at least for me.

Regarding the American 180:
The A180 was adopted by the Utah Department of Corrections to arm prison guards.

Despite the relatively low power of the .22 LR round, testing demonstrated that automatic fire could penetrate even concrete and bulletproof vests from cumulative damage. However, the target would have to remain still for an improbable amount of time to allow the cumulative damage to amass in the same area to achieve this.


Random YouTube video of one being fired.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2015, 12:12 AM
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[QUOTE=98_1LE;5503304]By detent do you mean the silver lever stickup up from the trigger group?

The spring detent, it slows the bolt down, and locks it shut. Also should be adjustable. on the other side of the sear trip lever as in picture of parshooter.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2015, 01:06 AM
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[QUOTE=22/silencer;5503700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98_1LE View Post
By detent do you mean the silver lever stickup up from the trigger group?

The spring detent, it slows the bolt down, and locks it shut. Also should be adjustable. on the other side of the sear trip lever as in picture of parshooter.
I refer to this as a "ball detent." It fits into the slot cut into the bolt and, yes, does "lock it shut" somewhat.

Or were you referring to something else?


Last edited by parshooter; 10-12-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2015, 07:55 AM
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I stand corrected, thank you.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2015, 09:48 AM
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i stand corrected. it was my understanding that the detent was adjustable with an allen screw in the bottem of the hole. so it could be adjusted to run with a supperrsor or not.
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2015, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98_1LE View Post
I stand corrected, thank you.
Nope, y'all were correct. D'OH!

I typed too fast last night without actually looking at the gun and had forgotten about the set-screw. Don't think I've ever adjusted it and simply forgot it was there. Sorry 'bout that.




Last edited by parshooter; 10-12-2015 at 09:47 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22/silencer View Post
i stand corrected. it was my understanding that the detent was adjustable with an allen screw in the bottom of the hole. so it could be adjusted to run with a supperrsor or not.
Thanks for bringing this up. I've had issues with this thing running reliably with bulk-pac and a tweak on the tension of the detent might just be the solution.

Got it apart today to replace the extractor too and look forward to experimenting at the next range trip.
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  #28  
Old 10-17-2015, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98_1LE View Post
No. Most machine guns are either closed bolt locked breech (e.g. M16), or open bolt blowback (e.g. Thompson, Mac/M11, Uzi).

The 10/22 kit is unique that is it closed bolt blowback operated. The weight in the bolt is designed to prevent the bolt from bouncing, by slamming into the bolt just after the bolt closes. This is to make sure the bolt is closed when the hammer comes forward. If the bolt is not closed, the hammer won't get a full/good strike.

One other gun that is a little bit similar is the FN P90. It has an anti-bounce weight on the bolt, looks a lot like the Norrell bolt. The P90 has an action that is delayed blowback, the barrel recoils for a short distance with the bolt.
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2017, 10:17 PM
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Norrell Patent

Does anyone have the patent number on the norrell trigger pack? I understand the ball detent, anti bounce weight, and possibly the trigger pack internals are all patented as per Small Arms Magazine. I have done searches on the net have come up with zero.
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2017, 12:39 PM
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Sounds like fun if you got a squib......
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