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Old 09-14-2019, 12:42 PM
52DH&R12

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Want your thoughts- Factory BR Matches



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I just read over on Rimfire Accuracy forum about ARA giving serious consideration to holding factory rifle matches. Factory meaning, no custom actions, no aftermarket barrels, no tuners and no BR type stocks allowed. Allowable upgrades, triggers, bedding, scopes, one or two piece rest would be okay. (NOTE) Nothing wrote in stone on any of this yet. Just in the heavy consideration stage for now, may not even happen.

1. If a factory match like this was available in your area, would you go?

2. If given a choice, would you prefer a target that was somewhat easier to get a high score on or use the target the custom shooters use ?

3. Would you prefer to use the best best ammo available or something limited to under 7.00 or 8.00 per box ?

These are just a few items being debated right now, but you have to consider most members at RA are custom rifle owners. I think there are probably more shooters interested that subscribe to this forum. Tell me what you think. ( JUST ABOUT THE THREE ITEMS I MENTIONED )

Thanks

Last edited by 52DH&R12; 09-15-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2019, 01:07 PM
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As you may know, my interests revolve around shooting factory guns, so yes, i would find this appealing. Our club spent some time last year discussing switching over to ARA, but one of the points of contention was the factory class.....which currently is really a custom class in my opinion.

As it is, we shoot some ARA matches for the custom gun guys and created a factory class using (mostly - with the exception of weight limit) USBR rules but with the IR 50/50 target. Paper quality on the USBR makes it more difficult to score accurately. So, no weight limit but bedding allowed as the only mod. Otherwise no other mods. That has worked out pretty well for the guys who want to use their heavy factory guns. We also offer a light sporter class for the lighter weight guns.

As far as allowing trigger mods, I don't need that and would prefer sticking with factory triggers, but would not be strongly opposed. But in my mind, a true factory class needs to stay close the original factory specs and not become a money game like the custom classes.....and aftermarket triggers aren't cheap nor are they always easily available for all the older heavy factory guns out there. I think allowing bedding is good due to the increased probability of bedding issues in older wood stocked guns. Don't really care about the target other than I prefer best edge scoring.....so we find that the IR 50/50 works well.

Just some thoughts for what they are worth.

James
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:56 PM
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This is my first year shooting ARA in the unlimited. I have done pretty good but I am competing against folks that have spent 10 times what I have, so I would love to have a true factory class to shoot with something like the IR 50/50 target and scoring the best ring.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:25 PM
FredJ_2008
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3 pound Trigger

If they do start a factory class, then have a rule that the trigger can be no lighter than 3 Pounds. Factory marking must be retained on Barrel.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredJ_2008 View Post
If they do start a factory class, then have a rule that the trigger can be no lighter than 3 Pounds. Factory marking must be retained on Barrel.
Then you are going to need someone to test every trigger before each match.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:30 PM
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I think it's a great idea. Base class, beginner class, entry class -- whatever you want to call it -- is a great way to bring new people into a shooting sport. Otherwise many are put off by what they say as the high cost of gearing up to be competitive.



Quote:
1. If a factory match like this was available in your area, would you go?
Probably.

Quote:
2. If given a choice, would you prefer a target that was somewhat easier to get a high score on or use the target the custom shooters use ?
Same target.

Quote:
3. Would you prefer to use the best best ammo available or something limited to under 7.00 or 8.00 per box ?
Not as easy to answer but I think establishing price cap is a good idea if the idea is to appeal to shooters just getting into the sport instead of seasoned BR shooters who just want to try a variation on things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHMSA80x80 View Post
Then you are going to need someone to test every trigger before each match.
Easy peasy. Weight on a hook lifted up with the rifle's trigger -- go/no-go test. Do it as part of signing in.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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I like the idea of factory guns, factory barrels, triggers, even stocks. The trigger weight to me doesn't matter.

I'm part of a group that shooters that shoot 50 yard fun matches, both scoped and aperture sights. We shoot A-17 targets with scopes and A-23 for the apertures. No one piece rests, front rest and rear bag. For the most part it's model 52's, 40X, 37, 82's and occasionally someone will bring their Anschutz. The most expensive ammo I've seen has been Center X and only one guy shoots it, I've never seen him win.

Done right it would be a fun class.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:16 PM
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Sure I would do it

I started with the custom gun route. Found out after retiring I could not do it with the cost involved. Sold off most of that stuff except the rifle. Will put it in the for sale section here at RFC. Just lazy I guess.

I will keep the Winchester 52D I have. Would use that gun for these matches.

Only thing I can not do is travel 4 hours for a match.

chuck40219
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:28 PM
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My club (Kentucky Precision Rimfire) has factory matches every month. We have two classes that are considered factory, heavy bolt (rifles that weigh more than 8.7#) and light bolt (rifles that weigh less than 8.7#)

Rules for each class is simple. Factory stocks, or a stock that is offered from the factory on that model. Example: CZ 455 American or Varmint in a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock of any color because you can buy a factory made 455 with a PV stock.

Factory barrels only. They can be recrowned if needed but that's the only modification.

Triggers can be lightened but must be factory.

Any ammo can be used.

Must use a two piece rest set up and no tuners.

These two classes are our most popular and get more shooters then the other three classes (custom, semi, unlimited) combined. They're also a real challenge so I'd say there would be alot of interest.
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Old 09-15-2019, 05:46 AM
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I would likely shoot them although being set up with custom rifles already I prefer to shoot them. In fact I'll bet its been several years since I've shot a factory rifle at 50 yards.
I've traded away most of my better factory guns to gather equipment for IR50 anyhow.
I'd prefer to shoot the IR50 target so to answer the question I'd like an easier target to shoot. Its only easier to me in that you have the extra scoring rings to gauge holdoff. I'd shoot any target though.
For me, I'd prefer the only rule to be a factory action/barrel. I wouldn't mind what was done to a trigger or stock for instance. As was said as long as it keeps the factory stamping I'm fine with it. Any modifications to it I'm fine with.
I'd allow any ammo personally as I'd want to ring the most out of them that they're capable of. There will always be whiners about being outspent on any of it & they'll likely give it up because of it & shooting poorly.
I'm sorry they feel this way. They don't get it, competing against yourself that is. Getting with others & the camaraderie with it.
What do you do about the Coopers & Anschutz' bench guns with custom barrels on them already I do not know. I guess I'd allow them as I'd want everyone to shoot.
This year I've started IR50 UL matches knowing that the members in my club had only factory rifles. What I've said to them is you're competing against yourself & your equipment. The 1st match I had 11 shooters. Since I've had 5 or 6 regulars.
4 of them have upgraded their ammo, bought 36x scopes, & one am Anschutz IR sporter& 36x. They all are having fun, improving, & learning alot.

Keith
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:51 PM
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Talking Sporter BR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
My club (Kentucky Precision Rimfire) has factory matches every month. We have two classes that are considered factory, heavy bolt (rifles that weigh more than 8.7#) and light bolt (rifles that weigh less than 8.7#)

Rules for each class is simple. Factory stocks, or a stock that is offered from the factory on that model. Example: CZ 455 American or Varmint in a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock of any color because you can buy a factory made 455 with a PV stock.

Factory barrels only. They can be recrowned if needed but that's the only modification.

Triggers can be lightened but must be factory.

Any ammo can be used.

Must use a two piece rest set up and no tuners.

These two classes are our most popular and get more shooters then the other three classes (custom, semi, unlimited) combined. They're also a real challenge so I'd say there would be alot of interest.
Your matches sound similar to our Club's Rimfire BR matches; Sporter, Ultimate Sporter, Heavy-weight Target, High-speed rimfire, Auto, Ultimate Auto and lastly peep-sights. About the only thing we don't shoot are custom ARA setups. We used to shoot ARA but the match director moved and attendance fell off. Our classes allow you to shoot what you brung and still be competitive. Attendance is up....fun for all without the need to spend big bucks
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHMSA80x80 View Post
Then you are going to need someone to test every trigger before each match.
If it's a registered match, triggers can be checked during registration.

When I shot registered pistol matches in England, they had a 1 kilo weight with a hook. You had to show that the chamber was clear, cock the hammer or striker and pick up the weight with the trigger. Then you had to snatch the pistol upward to snap the action.

It should be little trouble to fashion a 3# weight to do the same for rifles.
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Old 09-15-2019, 06:47 PM
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Factory class

To me the target is an important consideration. The ARA target would be discouraging for a non custom rifle shooter. USBR if IR5050 would be better.

The rifle would have to be exactly as available from the manufacturer. NO modifications at all.

There should be two factory classes. One with benchrest type stock allowing one piece rest. The other with sporter stock forearms using a two piece rest or bipod.

This would provide for an even playing field and promote greater participation.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:50 PM
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My .02 cents FWIW

[QUOTE=52DH&R12;11607595]I just read over on Rimfire Accuracy forum about ARA giving serious consideration to holding factory rifle matches. Factory meaning, no custom actions, no aftermarket barrels, no tuners and no BR type stocks allowed. Allowable upgrades, triggers, bedding, scopes, one or two piece rest would be okay. (NOTE) Nothing wrote in stone on any of this yet. Just in the heavy consideration stage for now, may not even happen.

1. If a factory match like this was available in your area, would you go?

2. If given a choice, would you prefer a target that was somewhat easier to get a high score on or use the target the custom shooters use ?

3. Would you prefer to use the best best ammo available or something limited to under 7.00 or 8.00 per box ?

These are just a few items being debated right now, but you have to consider most members at RA are custom rifle owners. I think there are probably more shooters interested that subscribe to this forum. Tell me what you think. ( JUST ABOUT THE THREE ITEMS I MENTIONED )

Thanks
[/QUO

Hello Fellow BR shooters:

Glade to see this subject come up on a serious level on the ARA leadership level.

1. Yes I am running "informal" benchrest matches at my range along with ARA and having good turnout. I also have guys from the informal group showing up to join the ARA matches.

2. Yes the entry "informal" target needs to be a easier target. The OHIT target created by Ron Elbe is ideal

3. Limit informal ammo to no higher than mid-level target ammo,
center-x, Eley equivalent to center X, and Norma Match....idea is to tone down the "arms" race mentality that takes over the sport. Keep it simpler and affordable to participate in. Let em sample the food to see if they want more.

We do not want this to be a "dying sport" we need a more inviting open door to new shooters - let more shooters get their feet wet and test the water.

Not all folks will have the commitment, desire, or need to go deep into the BR shooting sport, but "new" top shooters will show up more through a better "farm system". Ha... Just My Humble Opinion..
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:32 PM
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Found this picture on this Forum. The rifle in front has a custom syock but the one in the back in 100% factory.
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