Woodsman Sear steel. What type. - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:54 PM
desertmoon's Avatar
desertmoon

Join Date: 
Dec 2007
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
548
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Woodsman Sear steel. What type.



Log in to see fewer ads
Not too long ago I finally stumbled upon a 6 inch Match Target. A gun I had been pining over for a considerable time. It's a 1969 model, Series 3 obviously.

My only issue with this gun is that it had a horribly mushy trigger pull.

I purchased a couple of extra sears and was able to get an awesome, factory proper crisp pull. My eyes about exploded working with my glasses and machinist magnifiers but I got it.

In doing so, I removed a fair bit of metal to get the sear shaped the way I want it. It turned out right pretty.

Here are my questions:

Are the Woodsman sears ( Series 3 ) case hardened or are they a tool or ordnance grade, through hardened steel?

If they are case hardened, I have the tools to heat the sear and I can get some Kasenit or Cherry Red to do the job. No sweat.

If they are a tool steel, does anyone one know what type? Air, Water, Oil? What would be good hardening temps and times for the type of steel?

Thank you, everyone for your time.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:29 PM
prewoodsman

Join Date: 
Jun 2013
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
224
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertmoon View Post
My only issue with this gun is that it had a horribly mushy trigger pull.
I purchased a couple of extra sears and was able to get an awesome, factory proper crisp pull.
In doing so, I removed a fair bit of metal to get the sear shaped the way I want it.
I read these comments and questions yesterday and have pondered off and on a response since.
A Woodsman with a mushy Trigger pull is Not exceedingly rare but it is unusual and is not always attributed to just the Sear.
A replacement Sear that required a fair bit of metal to be removed to achieve a factory proper crisp pull? Once completed, was a proper Safety Engagement check performed ?

Regards,
Tom Platt

Last edited by prewoodsman; 09-02-2019 at 06:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-02-2019, 07:49 PM
desertmoon's Avatar
desertmoon

Join Date: 
Dec 2007
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
548
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prewoodsman View Post
I read these comments and questions yesterday and have pondered off and on a response since.
A Woodsman with a mushy Trigger pull is Not exceedingly rare but it is unusual and is not always attributed to just the Sear.
A replacement Sear that required a fair bit of metal to be removed to achieve a factory proper crisp pull? Once completed, was a proper Safety Engagement check performed ?

Regards,
Tom Platt
Tom,

Thank you for your time.

Safety check performed. I have a couple hundred rounds through it and everything is still running safely.

When I say "a fair bit of metal", I do mean that relative to the size of the piece I am working on. It was enough to correct the sear and hammer notch relationship and give me a pull that is similar to the rest of my Woodsman pistols.

After the safety and functional checks, I don't want to shoot the pistol any more as I would hate to compromise the surfaces I spent so much time on.

By the way, I did try a couple of different sears and hammers prior to working on this and still ended up with the same mushy pull.

Do also note that I bought the pistol used and it HAD been monkeyed with. I replace most of the fire control parts, the sear spring, hammer strut, etc. etc.

None of these helped the trigger pull at all...therefore, I am in agreement with you that there was another issue with the gun, be it the true positional location of the fire control group pin holes or something else.

That being said, I have how a safe, crisp, factory feeling trigger pull. I would hate to lose the work I put into it, hence the question about the material and the proper hardening procedures.....if they are even needed. I would just imagine that being a sear and being from the 1960s I would assume this is a case hardened part.

BY THE WAY: of all the darn Woodsmans I have owned or shot, this was the first one I ever witnessed with a crappy trigger pull. Go figure it would be a match target.

Last edited by desertmoon; 09-02-2019 at 07:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:22 PM
prewoodsman

Join Date: 
Jun 2013
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
224
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
So that others reading this understand, a proper Safety Check is an actual engagement of the Safety Assembly against a cocked Hammer/Sear. When the Safety Assembly is engaged a hard press on the Trigger will result in zero movement and a subsequent release of the Safety Assembly does not allow the Sear to disengage the Hammer or the wild firing of a cartridge via a hammer drop.

The Woodsman is further designed so that the Safety Assembly can only be engaged against cocked firearm, Period...

Assuming your Match Target passes an actual Safety Check, you are cleared to shoot at will.

Your Sear is made of relatively soft metal and is not heat treated/case hardened.
You would know this by a simple file test on the surfaces. And given the fact that you have honed adjustments to your Sear, that in itself proves the point.
I have honed hundreds of Hammers and Sears and never have I applied any hardening processes. A different issue when making High Carbon Steel Woodsman Springs for various applications.

Recapping the Safety Assembly: Bench testing....
A Sear Blocking post is incorporated into the Safety Assembly.
When the pistol is cock and the Safety is applied, the blocking post positions itself ahead of the Sear and blocks it movement. A pull of the Trigger results in zero movement. A release of the Safety should not allow for the drop of the Hammer.

Live Fire test:
insert a fully loaded magazine:
Cock the pistol and apply the Safety. Press the Trigger and a cartridge does not discharge. Release the Safety and again a cartridge does not automatically discharge yet a press of the Trigger does allow cartridge to discharge.
Do this nine more times.

Many time folks tinker with the Sear and Safety causing a dangerous condition.
If you ever wish to talk about Woodsmans I welcome an email and subsequent transfer of telephone numbers.

[email protected]

Regards,
Tom Platt

Last edited by prewoodsman; 09-02-2019 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:13 PM
desertmoon's Avatar
desertmoon

Join Date: 
Dec 2007
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
548
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Just did your safety check. 100 percent good to go.

So, to my original question. Should I surface harden my sear, or observe it for a few hundred more rounds to see if anything changes?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:10 AM
prewoodsman

Join Date: 
Jun 2013
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
224
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Your Sear is good to go.
Shoot 100,000 round and nothing will change.

Regards,
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:56 PM
doubs43
US Air Force Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2008
Location: 
Middle GA, USA
Posts: 
5,102
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prewoodsman View Post
Many time folks tinker with the Sear and Safety causing a dangerous condition. Regards, Tom Platt
A story my father told me many years ago.

Pop bought a new Woodsman pistol in 1929; a first series, of course.

The trigger didn't suit him so he did some filing on the sear.

With the pistol fully loaded he walked to a nearby creek where he saw a frog on the opposite bank. Taking careful aim, he squeezed off a shot... and in an instant all 10 rounds were gone.

He immediately returned home, put the Woodsman up and ordered a factory hand honed matching sear and hammer that Colt then offered to customers.

The pistol is still in the family and I can testify that the replaced parts give it a very sweet trigger.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:04 PM
LtCrunch's Avatar
LtCrunch
US Marines NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2015
Location: 
Colorado
Posts: 
1,746
TPC Rating: 
100% (5)
Kermit's Great Great Grandpa

Someone is going to ask this question Doubs, might as well be me. Did he hit the frog?

Frank
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Volquartsen sear modification Mark IV xdm9mm Mk IV 26 02-06-2019 03:01 AM
Sear Stoning Jig Triggershoe High Standard 4 11-12-2017 01:36 PM
Steel targets . Again jnyork Shooting Accessories 11 06-12-2017 11:44 AM
How thick steel plate to stop 22RF rounds? Rider47 .22 Ammunition (S-L-LR) 31 05-18-2017 09:06 PM
Winchester Dates Of Manufacture TEDDY BEAR RAT Winchester 52 20 04-27-2017 05:00 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x