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  #31  
Old 03-24-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballistx View Post
It is always interesting, and usually informative, to discuss, and cuss, the various merits and shortcomings of the various calibers. But when reality sets in, and the bullet meets the animal, just what is the real difference? I suppose if you are going to Texas heart shoot your animals, then it may be there is a difference. But if you are going to take a broadside, or quartering shot through the heart/lung area, then what is the real difference?

It is desired that the bullet expand on entering the animal. Once expanded, it is desired that the bullet continue its progress through to the other side, doing enough damage to disrupt the organs encountered and then exit leaving a reasonable sized hole that will allow for a blood trail.

That takes a specified amount of energy, somewhat dependent upon what is encountered along the way, such as significant bone. However, it is certain that if the bullet exits, then all of its energy was NOT expended within the animal. So, whatever energy is left over only propels the bullet further and does not aid in the termination of the animal.

Over 40 years and more than a couple larger game (33 deer and antelope in one 3 day hunt in Wy) I have never had either the 30-06 or 243 fail to do exactly what was desired, and that included through penetration with exit. And that occurred in more than one instance at over 600 yards with both the 30-06 and 243. Over my 50+ years of hunting, all of the large game has been taken with either the 243 or 30-06, about equally, and with the Nosler Partition bullets.

So, if the 243 can penetrate the spine, heart, lung and brisket and still exit at over 600 yards, why, pray tell, is it not an adequate cartridge for mule deer up to 600 yards? And if you can shoot it more accurately, due to more practice and less recoil, than the 30-06, then why is it not, actually, a better cartridge?

I know that the issue of the "bad shot" will be brought up. But the only thing the 30-06 is going to gain is a little more penetration if that long shot includes something like a Texas Heart Shot. If the vitals are at the beginning of the wound channel and not past the end, then it don't make a hogs breath difference which caliber.

This idea of 1000 ftlbs of energy is pure hogwash. It is whatever it takes in that shot to get the bullet to the vitals. The pass through only helps in tracking.

The 243/100 grain has approximately 650 ftlbs energy at 600 yards and that is apparently enough to penetrate a spine, vitals and brisket. If it had 2000 ftlbs, the bullet would have exited with at LEAST 1350 ftlbs of wasted energy. Obviously, less than 650 ftlbs were expended.

Most hunters won't intentionally take a "bad angle" shot whether they have a 243, 30-06 or xxxx Mag. If it is a gut shot, then it don't matter one iota anyway cause a 243 will do just as good on a gut shot as a 338 Lapua will.

So, I am of the camp that holds the 243 as totally adequate on all deer size animals at up to 600 yards and marginally adequate on elk or moose to 300 yards, IF the shots on the elk and moose are held to the broadside, heart/lung area. My old hunting partner, passed on now, took one of the largest moose killed in Idaho with a 243, through the shoulder shot. And that was a pass through.

JMHO.
Well said, I think a lot of the time larger more powerful calibers are used to make up for lack of marksmanship/hunter ability. Know your target, know your shot, know your gun and the only way to do that is to practice, practice, practice. Something you will do if your not dealing with recoil that makes you uncomfortable. My $0.02.
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2011, 05:53 PM
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I think the .243 Win is quite adequate for deer, especially if you use a Nosler Partition bullet. That said, I would still pick a 260 Rem over it, due to the better barrel life.
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  #33  
Old 03-25-2011, 12:41 PM
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Well interesting points brought up here
Yes the fact of knowing how your rifle shoots at certain distances with __ load is important
Being able to hit your target with the proper load in the correct place is ultimately the most important

For my needs I believe the .260 Remington will accomplish these needs

Well I took the first step today in the journey of intermediate caliber journey
I ordered this
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...la=ProductDesc

I paid $331 shipped with about .75cents for the NRA round up
RCBS is also having a $50 back in a mail in rebate for totals over $300
I need to find a RCBS product for .1cent
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  #34  
Old 03-25-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron M. View Post
If you like the AR platform consider 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel both are excellent for mid size game animals out to 250 yards. My wife is 5'6" and weights 140pounds and uses an AR in 6.8SPC with no trouble at all.
Yup, I love my 6.8.
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  #35  
Old 03-25-2011, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkearns View Post
Well I took the first step today in the journey of intermediate caliber journey
I ordered this
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...la=ProductDesc
Nice choice, but I just have to say that is an interesting approach. Most of us start with the rifle, then get the reloading stuff for it.
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  #36  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:31 AM
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The more powerful AR15 upper I did kick around this idea but I then saw the price of some of these uppers and I thought naw I would rather have another rifle

Sophia, I went looking on craigslist for individual pieces and didnt really come up with much

I then saw the set on sale and the fact that the mail in rebate is coming up so I went for it
I will save up more money and then buy the Savage
then comes dies and more reloading products
then comes scope for Savage, I will get SWFA to price match a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40
though I have yet to decide on which reticle
I was thinking either the standard duplex or maybe something like German #4 hmm

in the mean time I will start doing reading and researching .223 loads and .260 Remington loads
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  #37  
Old 08-03-2011, 10:30 AM
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I have to cast my vote for the 6.5x55mm. This cartridge has been killing big game animals all over the world longer than the 30.06 has been around. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the old '06. I have owned and shot them in the past and they definitely get the job done. But the 6.5 Swede will do everything the 30-06 will do and kick you less in the process. The Swede is an accurate, light-kicking death ray, and it's fun to shoot. Practicing with the Swede is a pleasant experience for most people. If I had to stick with one load, it would be a 140 grainer at 2700 fps. Sectional density of 6.5mm bullets is excellent, leading to amazing penetration, and the Swede can handle the long 160 grain bullets when you can find them. People have used the Swede to kill everything, including Polar Bear and Elephant. I would want a little more oomph for these beasties myself. The Swede and the '06 are in the same class of cartridges. They are at their best when used on non-dangerous big game animals. If you want to kill big bears or any of the big stuff in Africa, a step up in bore diameter is called for in my opinion.
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  #38  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:23 AM
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I realize I am digging up a thread that is coming up on 5 years old but I did in fact go with an intermediate cartridge.
My old roommates brother had a Tikka T3 in 7MM08 that had been sitting in our closet for a while when I randomly decided I wanted to get into deer hunting last season.
I made him an offer and bought it.

It came with a Leupold VXI 3-9X40 and that was recently sold and upgraded to a Leupold VX3i 3.5X10-40.
I took my first deer last year.

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  #39  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RimfireAU View Post
I took my first deer last year.

I can't wait to see what your face looks like after you clean the deer.
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  #40  
Old 06-28-2016, 12:16 PM
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243 is popular

Everyone I know who shoots a .243W loves it and swears by it. If it is enough gun for your purposes it would be hard to beat (here in Aussie it is sometimes irreverently - and no offence intended - referred to as the "Pope's Gun" - what the pontiff would bless as the perfect round).
I have a .223Rem so when I wanted a heavier rifle I chose a .270W - no complaints but it is a stout round compared to the .223.
I'm 5' 10" and too fat (200lbs+) and its recoil didn't cause me any concern but my 16 year old son who is maybe 130lbs was definitely conscious of the recoil of the .270 while he did not flinch with my brother's .243
Jim
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  #41  
Old 06-28-2016, 12:35 PM
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My 243 is a Tikka T3 Hunter. It is the best shooting gun I have. It even shoots better than my SAKO 270. I would say you have a great deer gun in that Tikka 7-08!

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk HD
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  #42  
Old 09-04-2016, 12:56 AM
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I had a Tikka T3 Hunter in 6.5x55 Swedish. Absolutely incredible. I regret selling it, but I don't hunt and I wanted to make room for more rimfires.
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2016, 05:14 PM
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Another good old catridge not mentioned is the 7x57 Mauser. It is very mild. I have a Ruger #1a light rifle and can shoot it all day. As someone mentioned the 6.5 Grendel in an at platform is nice also, I have a rifle and three uppers, from a short carbine to a long heavy bench type gun in that caliber. There seems to be something about the 6.5mm bullets, some will fly very well for extreme range as the 123 gr in the Grendel out to 1000 yards at rather modest muzzle velocities and the old standby 160 gr for game which seems to penetrate forever.

Also mentioning old calibers, nothing wrong with a 250 or 300 Savage, I have an old model 99 Savage lever action in 300. Recoil is rather mild, a bit less than the .308 Winchester.

Sometimes the only problem with the older calibers that have fallen out of fashion is the availability of ammo and guns.
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  #44  
Old 10-06-2016, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRS View Post
If you really HATE RECOIL then you wouldn't want to fire my .458 X 2" AMERICAN rifle. It has NO recoil pad! Kicks like a Mule!!

I have one of the short, light Marlin Guide guns in 45-70 and it's rather brutal.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2016, 03:41 PM
TargetModel
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I am recoil sensitive myself, even at 6'4" and 245lbs. I am a huge fan of the 6 and 6.5MM. I shoot a Bartlein barreled 700 S/A in 6.5 Creedmoor. It will shoot dime sized groups at 100 and sub MOA to 1K and a bit beyond. It will stay supersonic to about 1,200 YDS.

The great thing about the 6.5's are the projectiles themselves. Very long for caliber makes for stability. And the BC's are very high. I shoot the 140 Sierra MatchKings over 40.7 of Reloader 17 @2880FPS BC is about .580. The Berger VLD has a BC of a massive .675.

Hornady has the 143Gr ELD X. I load this for Elk. Is it lower powered compared to other calibers? Sure is but I can put the bullet where I want to. And it hits with plenty of energy to knock down at Elk at extended ranges. Shot placement, shot placement.

ETA: Hunters and target shooters have been using the various 6.5's especially the Swede for about 100 years with GREAT success against all species of game. Take a read about some of the Finnish Snipers.

Respectfully.

TM

Last edited by TargetModel; 10-12-2016 at 04:10 PM.
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