Tuner on a CZ 452 American - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:25 PM
kseatm
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Nov 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Virginia
Posts: 
6,843
TPC Rating: 
100% (50)


Log in to see fewer ads
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
Bob,

That is very interesting, do you always plan on the 9th when having a barrel crowned? I mean most smith will slug or use pins to determine where the crown will go. but using a 2-G must mean a BM which could explain that, as the last barrel I had done slugged so well the smith ask where I wanted the crown.

so with the PRX you use once set you don't touch the tuner no matter what?
as you know I don't believe in pre-setting a tuner as you may end up by-passing a the tune you are looking for. as many know who have tired tuners you will always find several settings that shoot, but only one will be the one where it will shoot all the time regardless of distance, temp., etc. if you see a change you haven't found that setting and that is the one you want. at least from my experience.
I also learned that weight on a tuner will narrow the window of lots that will shoot. using the least amount of weight at the end of the barrel will widen the window, at least it has for me. and I will find out in the coming days if it will apply to other rifles as well.

Lee
Lee,
Don't want to hijack this thread, but did want to fill you in on something you spoke of concerning tuner weight.

Think I mentioned about going backwards this summer to re evaluate my main gun. Tuners was one area I focused on. Gave the ultra light tuners a spin. Given the barrel that was used, in the configuration it was mated to, found the ideal weight was 6.25 with no ornaments. Trouble is, I can't find the sweet spot. Initially found the window was between 150 to 250. Shot the same anywhere in that range. Even shot cards in matches on different settings by just spinning the tuner a turn or two between cards.

Then, the other day wondered what it would do at 350ish. Shot one of the best targets I've ever shot at 355! But then next target, shot one just a few x's less at 270. Not sure if I can blame the condition change or tuner change for the difference in x count. Sometimes it's just on the person pulling the trigger. But then, what's the fun in assigning blame to ourselves? Much better to say it was something else that was to blame.

Still sorting things, but confident enough in the gun that I know if I miss, it's all me. Would just like to find that "one" spot. But the season is about over so it will have to wait until the spring. Have two outdoor matches left. One at Fairchance which means it doesn't matter what your tuner is on, what matters is how willing you are to hold off into the bull next to the one you're hoping to hit. And then the 10 shot Nationals. You need to try that sometime! Go big or go home! Anyway, those are the last two outdoor matches I can go to. Indoor season is upon us and I never trust anything I see inside. Too many false readings. It's more of a "grab your butt with both hands and hope you don't soil yourself" when you get inside. Basically, I never trust any ammo or tuner testing results if taken while shooting indoors. Without "real" air, I just don't believe what I'm seeing. Plus, I hate shooting indoors.

Long story short, I think you're correct in your assessment about weight of tuner and how it relates to barrel size/length. Thought that for awhile, and I know it's been kind of a stated "fact" that the thicker or bigger the barrel, the less weight on the tuner. But, lately you see more and more tuners being turned down to get into the 6oz and less weight range. So, maybe more and more people are getting to that point.

But, then again, it depends on where you're shooting too. It seems the ARA guys go against this as you see more slides, mid barrels, weights, etc on their guns. The IR guys are limited somewhat, especially if their guns are being used as a platform across three gun. So, you see more rifles without the ornaments.

I've seen some of the best shooters in the country shooting a rifle with nothing but a standard Harrel tuner on their guns. And then again, seen other shooters that are just as good shooting rifles with two mid barrel tuners, a Harrel tuner, weights and slides stuck on their guns. Can't argue with the success of either camp. That's why I always advise people to do what they think works the best.

Goes back to the whole "to each his own" thingy. That's why I don't get too excited when someone says the Purdy thing is the best. Or the Hopewell method is the best. Or the TIUTGSTB (Turn it until the gun shoots the best) method is the best. Or the ITMHMT (I think Marty Hammond means this) method is the best. Never understood the angst about any of the methods. What works for one gun, might not work for another. JMO though.

Anyway, thought I'd fill you in on the progress. Think your idea has merit, just haven't nailed it down yet.

Kenny

Last edited by kseatm; 10-01-2018 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:26 PM
jeff423
US Navy Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
298
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
I deeply appreciate all the help that has been given to me in this thread. This is a great forum.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:54 PM
kseatm
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Nov 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Virginia
Posts: 
6,843
TPC Rating: 
100% (50)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff423 View Post
I deeply appreciate all the help that has been given to me in this thread. This is a great forum.
Jeff, Have no idea about you or what you do with this. But, you are correct that this forum is a great forum.

Pay attention to what's posted, try what you think has merit. Heck, try things you think are foolish if you wish. Mainly, just try things. You'll learn more by trying than by thinking. Well, I do at least...

There are some great forums concerning everything under the sun on the internet. As to guns, there are too many to count. Narrowing it down to specific guns, RFC starts to lead the way. Refining your search towards more specific topics such as things that pertain to benchrest may lead to towards other forums. Which is fine. There are other forums. But, the atmosphere in those forums is completely different than here. Hard to explain, but it's just more "friendly" here. I am on those other forums, as are others you see posting in this forum. But, people here are more inclined to help you. At least in a nicer way. Not saying other forums are good or bad, just different.

Have been in this long enough, know the people involved well enough, and know enough to figure out when they're just being butt heads to each other that I don't get too excited when things go crazy. But here, most people really want to help you.

My advice is to read everything, but figure it out for yourself. Everyone, even if they don't want to admit it, can sometimes have their own agendas. And some might not actually have the experience in things that they talk about. That's a common issue with anything internet related. But here, it's more of a family atmosphere so you're a little "safer" if you ask a question that might be silly.

Good luck to you. Very few in this will willingly steer you wrong. It's just that getting to the point where you ask the right questions sometimes takes some time. And trial and error...

Take care

Kenny

Last edited by kseatm; 10-01-2018 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #19  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:46 PM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,905
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I'm just an amateur compared to some of these guys, but I do have a middling amount of common sense and have been around guns all my life. One thing I will throw out there in the form of a question to the OP. I think I know what you are trying to do, but my question is why? I know there are lots of possible answers, but I will throw two possibles out here and comment on both.



1) You want to put a tuner on the CZ hoping it will step it up significantly in performance and significantly improve the performance of your current ammo.



My comment here sort of reminds me of an old saying...."You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". This comment is in no way meant to be a derogatory comment against the CZ, and I sure hope you don't take it that way...I personally am a big fan of CZs and own a few good ones. But I'm just not sure that what you will get from putting a tuner on a factory CZ is worth the expense and effort - if significantly improved accuracy is your goal. And the tuner definitely will not make midgrade ammo shoot like top of the line ammo. As has already been said, I would wring that CZ out thoroughly, and if couldn't get it shooting 3/8" fifty yard groups pretty consistently with good ammo, I would reconsider using that gun as a candidate for a tuner. Perhaps it might be time to look for a more accurate gun to try a tuner on?



2) You just want to see what can be done by putting a tuner on your CZ.....the satisfaction of learning and in enjoying the experience are much more important than getting significant improvement in accuracy. It doesn't always have to make a lot of sense to be worth the effort. I can buy into that, and have gone down many similar roads myself. Sometimes the fun and gratification are more important than the cost and end results. That being the case then by all means, put that tuner on and see what happens. And look at the fun you can have and the ammo you can burn in getting it tuned.....


And then again, your goal may not be either of the two possibilities above.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:10 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2011
Location: 
NLV
Posts: 
3,885
TPC Rating: 
100% (35)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff423 View Post
I deeply appreciate all the help that has been given to me in this thread. This is a great forum.
One thing to remember is that believe what you see on paper not what anyone says it should be.
I chased the rabbit down the hole and shot a lot of ammo trying all that was suggested. finally told myself, if I do things against the norm so be it as long as the results I get is what will satisfy me, in the end I have to be happy no one else.

Lee

P.S
I suggest you read Varmint Al's article on rim fire tuning very good information.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:26 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2011
Location: 
NLV
Posts: 
3,885
TPC Rating: 
100% (35)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
Lee,
Don't want to hijack this thread, but did want to fill you in on something you spoke of concerning tuner weight.

Think I mentioned about going backwards this summer to re evaluate my main gun. Tuners was one area I focused on. Gave the ultra light tuners a spin. Given the barrel that was used, in the configuration it was mated to, found the ideal weight was 6.25 with no ornaments. Trouble is, I can't find the sweet spot. Initially found the window was between 150 to 250. Shot the same anywhere in that range. Even shot cards in matches on different settings by just spinning the tuner a turn or two between cards.

Then, the other day wondered what it would do at 350ish. Shot one of the best targets I've ever shot at 355! But then next target, shot one just a few x's less at 270. Not sure if I can blame the condition change or tuner change for the difference in x count. Sometimes it's just on the person pulling the trigger. But then, what's the fun in assigning blame to ourselves? Much better to say it was something else that was to blame.

Still sorting things, but confident enough in the gun that I know if I miss, it's all me. Would just like to find that "one" spot. But the season is about over so it will have to wait until the spring. Have two outdoor matches left. One at Fairchance which means it doesn't matter what your tuner is on, what matters is how willing you are to hold off into the bull next to the one you're hoping to hit. And then the 10 shot Nationals. You need to try that sometime! Go big or go home! Anyway, those are the last two outdoor matches I can go to. Indoor season is upon us and I never trust anything I see inside. Too many false readings. It's more of a "grab your butt with both hands and hope you don't soil yourself" when you get inside. Basically, I never trust any ammo or tuner testing results if taken while shooting indoors. Without "real" air, I just don't believe what I'm seeing. Plus, I hate shooting indoors.

Long story short, I think you're correct in your assessment about weight of tuner and how it relates to barrel size/length. Thought that for awhile, and I know it's been kind of a stated "fact" that the thicker or bigger the barrel, the less weight on the tuner. But, lately you see more and more tuners being turned down to get into the 6oz and less weight range. So, maybe more and more people are getting to that point.

But, then again, it depends on where you're shooting too. It seems the ARA guys go against this as you see more slides, mid barrels, weights, etc on their guns. The IR guys are limited somewhat, especially if their guns are being used as a platform across three gun. So, you see more rifles without the ornaments.

I've seen some of the best shooters in the country shooting a rifle with nothing but a standard Harrel tuner on their guns. And then again, seen other shooters that are just as good shooting rifles with two mid barrel tuners, a Harrel tuner, weights and slides stuck on their guns. Can't argue with the success of either camp. That's why I always advise people to do what they think works the best.

Goes back to the whole "to each his own" thingy. That's why I don't get too excited when someone says the Purdy thing is the best. Or the Hopewell method is the best. Or the TIUTGSTB (Turn it until the gun shoots the best) method is the best. Or the ITMHMT (I think Marty Hammond means this) method is the best. Never understood the angst about any of the methods. What works for one gun, might not work for another. JMO though.

Anyway, thought I'd fill you in on the progress. Think your idea has merit, just haven't nailed it down yet.

Kenny
Kenny,

I will email you later next week, planning a road trip. from my experience a lite tuner around 4.25 -4.5 oz. is where it needs to be with a .900 profile
I know for sure that is what to use for a HV-RT profile it will shoot at 50 & 100 yds.

I tried the traditional shaved tuner had the late James Pappas machine two for me. could never get them to shoot at 5.5-6-oz., the break thru was taking that extra 1-1.5 oz. off BINGO

Talk to you later have to pack a car up

Lee
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:26 AM
Fotheringill's Avatar
Fotheringill

Join Date: 
May 2012
Posts: 
3,977
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I purchased a Harrell's style tuner from Killoughs and had them cut it to the barrell after I sent them the whole rifle to bed and install the tuner (it is an Anschutz rifle).

I did Hopewell and Purdy. It was a laborious process and wound up using Purdy and then fine tuned that result. I am happy with the results. Whatever ammunition you are using, make sure it is the same brand, grade and lot throughout and that the testing conditions, i.e. wind, temperature and moisture are as identical as you match them. It is NOT a one day process.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x