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  #46  
Old 06-08-2015, 03:47 PM
n64atlas
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Back before the 4473 had the "other" classification, we but down receiver only. The 4473 is a dealer paper anyway and doesn't go to BATFE unless the dealer gives up his FFL. After 20 years, you can burn the 4473's. You still have to keep the bound book and turn it in when you give up your FFL unless someone buys you out. Then they keep the books.
The Contender fell into a special category that wasn't defined in the GCA 68. There wasn't anything like it on the market at the time. I've had my Contender for close to 40 years. Think I bought it in 1974 or 75. I have several barrels for it. Some are not that common like the 9mm and 45acp 10" octagons. Others include 22 Jet, 30 Carbine, 22lr .222 Remington 41 Mag, 44 Mag 45 Colt/410 and a couple of Herrit's 30 and 357. Never bought a rifle kit for it. I have a .223 Rem in a Mini-Mauser Mark X action. Did have a .223 14" Contender barrel but sold it.
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  #47  
Old 06-08-2015, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2 View Post
While benchresters like to build rifles off XP100 actions, those I'm pretty sure are all handgun classed (and nobody cares about making handguns into rifles).

That is true and legally allowed.

I bet more than one decent machining rube has flubbed it by taking a 600 and converting it to XP100.
The manufacturer designated the 600 as a rifle action. Remington came out with the XP-100 the year before the 600 (the identical action), so that they could not be accused of turning a rifle into a handgun.

If the action is undesignated by the manufacturer, meaning it is sold as neither a rifle nor a handgun, and is sold as an undesignated action, it can be used for building either one. I believe Savage has done this recently, and maybe others, but I don't know for sure, as I don't keep up with that. I just buy XP-100's as handguns, and Contender frames without buttstocks and with Contender barrels of 15" or less. I don't try to make them into something they are not supposed to be.
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  #48  
Old 06-08-2015, 08:47 PM
n64atlas
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AR 15 receivers are bought as "other" and built as handguns or rifles.
I like the Super 14's and the 10" octagon's. I do have a couple of 10" bulls also.
Will have to get some pics taken and post them.
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  #49  
Old 06-09-2015, 01:10 AM
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LOL I am aware of the XP100/600 difference.

But I ran into somebody once that wasn't (stranger at local show or range-can't remember exactly, been a long time back).

Somebody else informed him of the error and it supposedly went back to rifle ASAP.

File that under "sh*t you see at the range".

Like another clown with a short bbl Encore with the buttstock on, factory box with all that warning label crap on it.....right beside him.

Or a lot of the new gun guys with AR pistols that walk into the gunshop with some ghetto grip (vert) on it and say "look what cool rig I built!"......

freakin clueless.

You nicely say "sir, you can't do that" and they almost all go "sure you can, it bolts right on!"

Must be offspring of the guys here who tell me rifles are OK for deer as long as they are single shot or lever action (when the law is only cartridge based).

I refuse to enlighten such people anymore. Just do my own thing and let them suffer whatever legal issues they encounter on their own. Don't care what others do. Do think stupid should hurt.
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  #50  
Old 06-09-2015, 01:16 AM
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BTW, rumor has it that a semi local deer hunter tangled with the DNR way back on some TC Contender issue and spent a fair sum to prove his point.

Handgun/rifle debate it was IIRC.

State bullied, or tried to, and lost. But heard it cost him around 12-15K to win (about 30 yrs ago).

Rather than admit fault, when there was none, and pay a ticket.........a lengthy legal battle. Man of principle prevailed. Either stubborn or had a thick wallet (maybe both).

Never did hear who it was.
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  #51  
Old 06-09-2015, 02:21 AM
n64atlas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2 View Post
LOL I am aware of the XP100/600 difference.

Or a lot of the new gun guys with AR pistols that walk into the gunshop with some ghetto grip (vert) on it and say "look what cool rig I built!"......

.
If it was a Sig Brace then yes you can do that.
http://www.guns.com/2015/02/20/sig-a...l-brace-legal/
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  #52  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:42 AM
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Handguns may not have a forward vertical grip added.

Nothing I mentioned was about the ugly as sin Sigbrace.

And anybody with a brain knows that folks would use that (Sigbrace) as a buttstock.

Interesting.........heard something to the effect that the designer of it had the BATF over a barrel. They had to approve it lest be sued over discrimination (people with disabilities).

The Magpul angled is a legal forward grip on a handgun. Just can't have one too vertical.

Those pod deals and other Ghetto tacticool are a no-no. Not just in style, but in law.

Last edited by CD2; 06-09-2015 at 09:46 AM.
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  #53  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:48 AM
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And bringing it back on topic (TC) I recently saw a pic of a Contender in handgun form with a vertical grip on the forend

If not SBR that'd be a no no I reckon.
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  #54  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:51 AM
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It can get rather silly/stupid, but progression of legal and other often does.

Never been against progress, just against those mindless folks who are progressive.
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  #55  
Old 06-17-2015, 10:17 AM
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How about a shotgun

Just to confuse the issue a little more - I bought my Encore as a 20 ga shotgun. Don't know how it left the factory, nor do I care.

Based on my reading of the Supreme Court case and a lot of other related materials I had no concerns about buying a .223 and 22lr rifle barrels and swapping them at will. Further, I had no concerns buying a .270 15 inch pistol barrel and using it only when using the pistol grip. I never, ever have the stock or grip installed until the barrel of choice is attached.

If you read the decision, the final determining factor was that possession of the parts did not constitute the manufacture or assembly of the NFA firearm. If it is not assembled in a prohibited manner then all is well.

Just because I own an AR 15 pistol and an AR 15 rifle and possess them at the same time, I am not guilty of owning an unregistered NFA weapon. Only when I improperly assemble the pieces putting a short barrel on a rifle stock do I cross the line.

I suggest that anyone interested in this matter actually read the Supreme Court decision for themselves. It is clearer than you would imagine.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2015, 02:26 PM
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I heard some time back that it's not cool to have an AR rifle and a pistol upper, without pistol lower around.

Something about "intent".

Heaven forbid you have a rifle, then want a pistol and see a great deal on an upper.
Nope...........not til you get the proper lower first.

What next....own an AR rifle and having a lathe, mill or hacksaw will be intent?

Some folks will remain clueless to the laws and just do stupid stuff.......while morons, I still consider them mostly harmless.
Their breeding/child rearing has me more worried.

Last edited by CD2; 06-17-2015 at 02:31 PM.
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2015, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CD2 View Post
I heard some time back that it's not cool to have an AR rifle and a pistol upper, without pistol lower around.

Something about "intent".

Heaven forbid you have a rifle, then want a pistol and see a great deal on an upper.
Nope...........not til you get the proper lower first.

What next....own an AR rifle and having a lathe, mill or hacksaw will be intent?

Some folks will remain clueless to the laws and just do stupid stuff.......while morons, I still consider them mostly harmless.
Their breeding/child rearing has me more worried.
That's my point. The Supreme Court case said intent could not be established because you owned a collection of parts. Only when they are assembled improperly could the BATFE act.
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  #58  
Old 06-17-2015, 03:55 PM
n64atlas
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Many years ago, I was walking around a gun show. I saw an Enforcer M1 pistol that someone had attached a removable butt stock to. He had also added a flash hider but it only extended the barrel to around 14". He didn't have a clue that he had an unregistered SBR. (he didn't have paper work)
After I told him what he had, he put it under his table.
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  #59  
Old 06-18-2015, 01:02 AM
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The court ruled on the TC kits.

I think AR15s and the full auto parts, and short bbls are seen a bit differently.

If you have a rifle (complete) and a handgun upper, you'd best have a handgun or SBR lower to prove you have a proper place to attach it.

That's what I heard some time back, from guys with the expensive toys.

If you have no rifle, then a handgun upper is no big deal.....since you have nothing that could be incorrect to put it on.
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  #60  
Old 06-18-2015, 01:14 AM
CD2

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Back in the day a lot of jackweeds had AR's and 11.5" uppers..........thought it fun, and funny, to swap them onto their rifles.

Some knew it was wrong, many didn't.

They kinda cracked down for a bit on selling short bbls and short bbl'd uppers. Could buy, but would be sent to a class 3 dealer or manufacturer.

Dunno what's changed since then. With the kinda sorta new "receiver" deal on the 4473 maybe buying handgun uppers/bbls is less of a hassle.

Freakin' too **** loud/annoying to mess with anyway.

Have no interest in an SBR unless I make one from a different platform for deer hunting......7600 Remington Handgun

State law may have changed recently to where that could be done, and seen as a handgun (SBR in handgun form) and I wouldn't need to adhere to the rifle cartridge spec (have one in .243 or .308).

State said yrs ago i could build an SBR, and hunt deer with it legally, but in handgun form it would still need to be in a rifle spec cartridge (.35 cal min, 1.16 min case length, max 1.625 back then). Rifle cartridge spec opened up to 1.8 max case now.

Specialist said " a rifle is a rifle" according to the state.

Handgun spec is 1.16 min, no max and .243 or larger.

If I score the base rig right, the $200 stamp won't seem out of place. Still looking.......gives me an excuse to search the shops and shows. Rumor was reg rifles this yr, so many folks bought all sorts of rigs. Figure if it gets no traction in the media there should be some after X mas deals when folks have credit card bills due and the rifle they bought sits in the cabinet gathering dust.

Last edited by CD2; 06-19-2015 at 01:50 AM.
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