Is anyone really impressed by 25 yard groups? - Page 7 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:21 PM
Al the Infidel's Avatar
Al the Infidel
US Marines Disabled American Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2007
Location: 
Yoopersville, MI
Posts: 
1,013,695
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)


Log in to see fewer ads
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post


Nice photo.
Thanks. The bullet went in one eye and incidentally out the other(wabbit shot from a different angle than the pic) from a $120 rifle that shoots Eley sshp very well @ 25yds.. It shoots a little better now with a VQ carbon fiber tensioned barrel.
__________________
The better you are the more lucky you will be.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:52 PM
kidneyboy

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
upper midwest
Posts: 
190
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post
This always bugs me. Someone will start a thread to post range results of a particular rifle and Ammo combo. Then reading into it further Iíll find out it was done at 25 yards.

I get that some folks canít always shoot at distances of 50 or more. Iím not talking about forced conditions, which is understandable and much better than nothing in that case. But what Iím talking about is normal everyday testing where you do have a choice.

To me, a rifle/Ammo combo at 25 yards is not a true indicator of performance.

I once asked the great Joe Haller why he held Benchrest competitions at 25 yards at his club and he chuckled and said it was because he wanted to attract more people into the sport by making it easier for them to feel they were doing well. He said anyone with a bit of skill and a halfway decent rifle could shoot a good card at 25 and feel good about it. Because it was much harder at 50, the ones who werenít as serious about it would quickly loose interest.

By the same token the guys who were serious and had the better equipment, would clean a card pretty handily. The scores at 50 were quite different.

I see a lot of folks posting 25 yard groups saying that they just double in size as distance does. Thatís not how it works at all. Iíve seen it time and again. There are a million factors that affect group size and Iím sure most here are aware of them so I wonít go into it all. But folks still persist in posting group after group at 25 when the standard for a 22LR is commonly accepted as 50 yards.

I just kind of chuckle when I see it, but it seems many really are impressed and think the rifle or shooter are the second coming. Maybe they are and maybe they arenít but until you stretch it out to find out you really donít know.

Another one is cherry picking groups or discounting flyers. Time and gain theyíll measure a tight cluster and youíll see one or two outside which theyíll circle and say ďthat was me so I didn't count itĒ.

Again, they're not doing themselves or the rifle/Ammo any favors. Maybe theyíre not out to prove anything and just want to have fun and feel they're doing well. Maybe they are only doing it for bragging rights - thats fine too if thatís what they're after. But truth is you arenít really contributing to the knowledge base or furthering the sport by posting those groups under the guise of experimentation.

Not meant as a dig at anyone in particular. Just my own personal observation and a bit of a pet peeve since I am always interested in range report posts and what a particular rifle/Ammo can achieve. When I see its done at 25 I am usually disappointed and just move on.

Maybe itís just me. Anyone else feel that way?
The arrogance in this post is astounding.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:01 PM
Mossbergman
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Mar 2004
Location: 
Hollow log along the Susquehanna River, Dauphin County Pa.
Posts: 
11,132
TPC Rating: 
88% (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittarius View Post
I used to be impressed with 25 yard groups until I joined this site, lol.
My cousin's son in law shot a 25 yard group no larger than the bore diameter of his 1972 10/22's barrel last summer and wanted me to post it here to see what you guys thought.
I told him that it would get laughed at here.
I shot a 25 yard one hole group with my Pardini SP that I thought was pretty good for a pistol but would not post it here either.
That's Sad that a forum shames some one to the point they won't share what they are proud of for fear of ridicule ~~JMJ~~
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:04 PM
ajole
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Location: 
NE Utah
Posts: 
427
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
So....I shoot my groups at 25 yards, but I’m not benched. I stand behind my truck, put my elbows on the rails of the truck bed and the tailgate, and shoot. Usually using bulk ammo.

BRNO ZOM451 straight pull, the stock tangent sights, first seven shots I put through the gun, so it wasn’t yet zeroed...and I did it left handed because my astigmatism was bad that day in my dominant eye. Federal 36 grain bulk. I don’t care what goofball isn’t impressed by it, I was.



My CZ 455 American in 17 HMR. First 5 shots, zeroing the scope over the hood of my truck, on the elbows again. Left center, adjust, left upper, adjust, top center, top right and center right. CCI 17 grain.



And just because...100 yards, off the bed rails, with a $60 Savage Mark II. I shot 20 rounds of Blazer LRN at 25 yards, zeroing the Sweet 22 scope. Set up at 100, dialed in the scope and shot once...called it a day, whatever it was, was dead. Screw the groups.


Last edited by ajole; 01-23-2020 at 11:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:42 AM
700PSS Shooter's Avatar
700PSS Shooter
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2003
Location: 
Virginia, the Olde Dominion
Posts: 
216
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I am sorry the OP was triggered by a too close group (in his judgement) post...

Unfortunately, for many shooters, they have to shoot where they can. Not everyone has a back 6 acres or a 200 meter range. Many have to enjoy their sport/hobby/pastime where they can and when they can. It that means a 25 years indoor commercial pistol range so be it. Plus keep in mind even these are under attack in many jurisdictions.

In this online community we do not know all the time were a person lives or shoots. It is not like meeting in person where a person can invite another to a place where you can shoot longer ranges.

My attitude is to encourage all shooters and to be welcoming. That new shooter or shooter who only has a local range (many have no ranges easily available) is doing what they enjoy.

In this day and age where our hobby and enjoyment are under severe attack by politicians, media and billionaires, we need all interested shooters to be aware and learning, and be welcomed.

If you do not like a post, the easy thing is just not read it.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:32 AM
ajole
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Location: 
NE Utah
Posts: 
427
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Of course...you have to read it to know if you donít like it....so, thereís that.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:54 AM
LuckyGuy
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Feb 2015
Location: 
Sacramento, CA
Posts: 
89
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia View Post
Most of us were born without knowing how to crawl, much less walk. Then, eventually, we worked our way up from just thrashing around to crawling then walking and even running.

For someone new to the sport or just starting out on the path to accuracy and precision over being satisfied with casual plinking, a good 25 yard group is something to be proud of and praiseworthy even if the runners look down on it as only crawling.

I'll praise them every time, and if they seem ready and open to it I might offer some suggestions on stretching it out a little. It's either that or keep my mouth shut....er.... sit on my hands as there is no goodness in raining on someone else's parade.

That's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
I believe using a pistol, offhand is justifiable at 25 yards for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:35 AM
rblue

Join Date: 
Sep 2015
Posts: 
12
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I rarely post on the forum but this thread is a good one.

My first question with respect to group shooting is-ďWhat sort of equipment?Ē

I am amazed at the number of .22 shooters who use scopes. Before Iím attacked...Iím not attacking scope shooters...I just saying that I never knew that so many folks used them on .22 rifles.
Iíve always shot .22 groups with iron sights and find it challenging at any range to shoot one hole groups.
At 48 my eyes are starting to show their age but I can still manage to put them in the same home at .25 or .50 yards fairly consistently.
The equipment I use is old.
Iím a collector. None of my rifles were made after 1950. I shoot from a simple bench rest. My hardest challenge lately has been finding targets that suit me and some of my rifles sights.
Iíve always wanted to learn to shoot three position. The range I go to doesnít have an area where you could practice those disciplines and I donít know of anyone in the area who practices those disciplines.... itís probably too late at my age anyway.
Iíve always been impressed by the Olympic and ISSF shooters and their equipment.

I guess to the OPís point..my experience has been that equipment of better quality produces more consistent results and the range isnít that important.
The basic fundamentals apply at any range. Sight control, trigger control, breath control...they work at .25yards on out to 1000. A friend of mine, a double distinguished civilian marksman, practiced for long range in his attic with an air rifle.
So I think itís to each his own and what venues are available.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:11 AM
zukiphile
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2002
Location: 
ohio
Posts: 
1,109
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblue View Post
Iíve always wanted to learn to shoot three position. The range I go to doesnít have an area where you could practice those disciplines and I donít know of anyone in the area who practices those disciplines.... itís probably too late at my age anyway.
It's not too late. It's pain, effort and a challenge, but it interests and entertains me, so I don't mind being bad at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rblue View Post
Sight control, trigger control, breath control...they work at .25yards on out to 1000. A friend of mine, a double distinguished civilian marksman, practiced for long range in his attic with an air rifle.
So I think itís to each his own and what venues are available.
Indeed.

When I was much younger and shooting at informal ranges, putting successive rounds through a single hole would be a sign that the target was too close. We didn't shooter from benchrests. Jaia's 200 yard threat is interesting in part because it shows groups rather than a single hole measured with calipers.

Shooting a scoped rifle from a benchrest at 25 yards is a very specific hobby; it may not be reasonable to expect it to have a wide appeal.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:49 AM
trlrider's Avatar
trlrider
US Marines Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2017
Location: 
Guadalupe County, Texas
Posts: 
5
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post
This always bugs me. Someone will start a thread to post range results of a particular rifle and Ammo combo. Then reading into it further I’ll find out it was done at 25 yards.

I get that some folks can’t always shoot at distances of 50 or more. I’m not talking about forced conditions, which is understandable and much better than nothing in that case. But what I’m talking about is normal everyday testing where y................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......

What bugs me?

One that finds the need to belittle another individuals accomplishments, no matter how small or insignificant to themselves.
Finding ones limits has been a test of humanity since the dawn of time whether it be physical, mental, emotional or combinations of many factors.

I teach youth marksmanship on many different platforms and we start many times at 50 feet with a pistol target shooting rifle. It gives the encouragement to continue on. Some of those youth are now taking those same rifles used at 50 feet and running them out to 200 yards on very challenging targets.

We do a huge amount of dry fire and air rifle/pistol practice to hone skills. Had one youth that was outstanding in air rifle. Never fired a smallbore rifle and went to a F-Class match with some very experienced shooters and won the match.

If all one ever wants to do is feel accomplished at 50 feet, 25 yards, 50 yards etc, then so be it. It is not someone else's duty to Judge!

"To Each is Own!"

This is really a great forum for learning and sharing! Let's not ruin it by running down what others enjoy or how they enjoy it.

And yes, I do ammo and firearm testing at 25 yards, because if it doesn't do squat there, it won't do squat at 100 to 200 yards.

Wanna know what is fun! Taking a youth to a Precision match with a Sporter rifle and no fancy gear, and scoring within 2% of the Precision shooters. Now that is fun!


Thanks!

Last edited by trlrider; 01-24-2020 at 08:02 AM. Reason: reduce the size of the quoted text and add a statement.
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:09 AM
supersharp's Avatar
supersharp
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2013
Location: 
bleeding liberal CT.
Posts: 
1,332
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
This post has attracted a lot of attention .People are obviously passionate about this issue. I personally believe if you're shooting from a bench 25 yd does not do it for me even with PCP airguns .50 yards is my benchmark with rim fire and air rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:33 AM
Al the Infidel's Avatar
Al the Infidel
US Marines Disabled American Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2007
Location: 
Yoopersville, MI
Posts: 
1,013,695
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
1st time my wife ever shot a pellet gun; she put the first 5 rn pellets from an RWS-34 .177 springer into a 1/4" bull @ 25yd(lasered), from a well padded deck railing with the heiny end on her shoulder. I was impressed with her shooting, with me cocking it for her. She hasn't let me forget it either.
__________________
The better you are the more lucky you will be.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:38 AM
Topstrap44's Avatar
Topstrap44

Join Date: 
Dec 2012
Location: 
East Ohio
Posts: 
918
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Been a really interesting thread so far. Accuracy at any distance and expectations have so many variables as what to expect when done right. So many variables with equipment, ammo and skill levels that it's hard to compare.

Shooters with specialized equipment for each discipline will always have a slight advantage over us meer mortals with more common equipment that gets us out sending rounds downrange. I've had long-range shooters miss 25 yard targets, benchrest guys wondering how we hit anything at 200 yards on a breezy day, offhand guys showing us how it's done and PRS shooters mowing thru a rack so fast all the targets are still spinning.

Each of us has our own idea as to what we enjoy shooting based on equipment, available funds, range access and skill level. No matter what you shoot there will always be someone out there that will hand your butt to you and occasionally with equipment that you'd laugh at.

I do agree with a sentence in a previous post about letting newer shooters shooting at 25 yards because it's easier. Shooting well in any discipline isn't easy, it takes practice. They have to start somewhere, letting them hit targets or shooting a ting group is a good thing. They will have fun, build confidence and try harder competitions when they are ready. I have quite a few easily to hit targets and a few really small ones that challenge the best.

Don't get too smug and put down what others share, they thought enough to share it with us and that is enough for me to enjoy reading about it.

Topstrap

Last edited by Topstrap44; 01-24-2020 at 10:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:02 PM
ammohog
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2009
Location: 
Texas
Posts: 
2,706
TPC Rating: 
100% (10)
25 or 50 yards? It's all about the ammo and the rifle. My range ammo box sometimes only has a few expensive top quality target ammo's available when carrying lesser accurate rifles to the range. For example, if I'm bringing the TRP3 as compared to the Marlin 15YS, the accuracy facts speak for themselves. It is really a waste of time and money to shoot Eley Match at 50 yards with the Marlin 15YS, when at 25 yards I can shoot a USBR target or groups with CCI SV and have a lot of fun. With the TRP3 or the 52E, Anschutz, etc.... it is really a shame not to shoot a 50 yard target for score with the high dollar ammo it likes the best. It sometimes really depends on the ammo I have available in the "expensive target ammo box" storage compared to the ammo in the "also ran ammo box" for the range rifle(s) of the day. I really thought it was all about having fun..........? I know my rifles capability for accuracy, and pack ammo for the range accordingly. Back down to planet Earth yet?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:11 PM
justinp61
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2012
Location: 
W.KY Go Cards & Wildcats
Posts: 
612
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Do 25 yard groups impress me? It depends on how it was shot and what it was shot with. If I shoot tiny groups at 25 with one of my 52 Winchesters off a rest, no it's not impressive. If some 12 yo kid or someone who is new to shooting does it with the same rifle, yes it's impressive and I will give the encouragement to try to foster more interest in the sport. If a tiny group was shot offhand at 25 yards with a 10M air rifle, yes I'm impressed. Heck, I'm not very good offhand so good groups at 25 with a 22 impress me.

For the most part (IMO) it's all about ones perspective. If you've been shooting rimfires for years and shoot 100-200 yards on a regular basis, 25 yards is pretty bland. If you're that 12 yo kid who just got his first rifle and you shoot tiny groups at 25 yards, you're going to be proud of them, and rightfully so.

Shoot what you like at whatever distance blows your whistle and have fun. Pass along some encouragement and knowledge when you can. Even folks with little experience can help those with no experience.

You never know when a little kindness can make a big difference on some ones life.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x