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Old 01-13-2017, 11:46 AM
SGW Gunsmith
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~~New~~ Ruger Mark Firing Pin



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I did some more testing of "a" new style Ruger firing pin. The first test I did involved these same three pistols, and I used the same firing pin in all 3 pistols. That test involved 3 full magazines (30 rounds) in EACH pistol, for a total of 90 rounds. I'll use numerical characters so that "one guy" doesn't get too confused.



CCI Mini-Mags were again used for this go-round. 2 full magazines of 10 rounds each were fired in all 3 pistols, this time around, for a total of 60 rounds. So the tally is now 150 rounds using the SAME, single firing pin in all 3 pistols. No light hits or failures to ignite the primer were encountered.

Rim hits were perfect in depth, width and position on the rim. This depiction involves several of the spent cases that I was able to dig out of the snow.



There's one specific area that I always inspect when I get Ruger Mark pistols in for "tuning & smoothing", and I've never read where any of the "one-gun" experts have ever mentioned this. Notice how the top of the firing pin rides along the bottom of the half-moon brace on the front end of the recoil spring assembly.



See for yourself how rough the bottom of that half-moon brace is normally found from the metal smearing during the stamping process. You can plainly see how the hard firing pin has rubbed the bottom area smooth.



That rubbing along the rough surface will rob the firing pin of some of the forward movement on its journey in the bolt and to hit the case rim with all the force intended from the hammer.

I make it a habit to polish that bottom face of the brace to give the firing pin a smoother travel toward the case rim. Does it help? It sure can't hurt anything, and the bottom of that brace does keep the firing pin from rearing up before it hits the case rim.



This is the way I conducted my testing and the way I did things. If anybody finds fault, please do your own testing and provide pictures of your end result.
  #2  
Old 01-13-2017, 11:52 AM
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Strikes

Those pictured strikes are certainly a lot more authoritative than I'm getting from any of my Mark IIs!
  #3  
Old 01-13-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by coltlog View Post
Those pictured strikes are certainly a lot more authoritative than I'm getting from any of my Mark IIs!
Probably because the firing pin tip was stoned and shaped. In HIS other new firing pin post HE stated (and showed) the deplorable rolled over tip the pin came out of the package with.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:06 PM
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Is this the same pin at ShopRuger.com,for $3.50?
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:46 AM
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Exactly what was the point of this "testing"?

Usually, testing is done to prove/disprove or verify something. This just appears to be someone blowing off a box and a half of the easiest to detonate ammo (and thus the most reliable ammo) in the 22LR world.
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Old 01-14-2017, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Exactly what was the point of this "testing"?

Usually, testing is done to prove/disprove or verify something. This just appears to be someone blowing off a box and a half of the easiest to detonate ammo (and thus the most reliable ammo) in the 22LR world.
I would think that's obvious- to examine the footprint left by the firing pin.

Unless I missed something and your question was rhetorical and only intended to provoke the OP...

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Old 01-14-2017, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
I would think that's obvious- to examine the footprint left by the firing pin.
Uhmm, okay. So why would the same firing pin leave different footprints depending on which hammer has hit it? It seems it would be a more informative endeavor to examine the footprints from a variety of different ammo - like easy/medium/hard to ignite - from a single gun. JMO.

Sorry if it seemed provoking. 4/5 pictures, and most of the commentary wasn't about "footprints".
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Old 01-14-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Uhmm, okay. So why would the same firing pin leave different footprints depending on which hammer has hit it? It seems it would be a more informative endeavor to examine the footprints from a variety of different ammo - like easy/medium/hard to ignite - from a single gun. JMO.

Sorry if it seemed provoking. 4/5 pictures, and most of the commentary wasn't about "footprints".
I kinda thought that was the whole point- that regardless of which bolt it was in, or which hammer struck it, the firing pin was producing uniform strikes with good indentation, a uniform distance from the edge of the rim?

Again, could just be me missing his whole point or yours.
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Old 01-14-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
I kinda thought that was the whole point- that regardless of which bolt it was in, or which hammer struck it, the firing pin was producing uniform strikes with good indentation, a uniform distance from the edge of the rim?

Again, could just be me missing his whole point or yours.
I agree DrGunner, you're not missing anything. SGW tested the NEW firing pin and these are the results.
If someone wants to test it differently knock yourself out. I myself appreciate the time and money SGW spent on this test.
Thanks SGW
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:13 AM
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Well, SGW must have something here..
The keeper on my new VQ spring kit already has a small notch in it where the firing pin rides under it.
I doubt VQ went to the extra trouble unless they thought it was needed.
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:18 AM
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Let's keep this realistic. HE "tested" the firing pin after HE'd stoned and shaped the tip of because as delivered the tip was pretty awful. Something that can be done with any of the OE or aftermarket firing pins.

The firing pin indent doesn't prove much. A smaller contact area will give a deeper imprint. What matter is the rds going bang reliably.

Power Custom takes the opposite approach with a much wider tip. It gives a shallower, wider imprint as would be expected. I use them, (the titanium version) both as delivered and after reshaping the tip (narrowing it) like HE did to the new Ruger firing pin. Both the wide and narrow tipped pins have run reliably for far more than 90 rds.

What seems more important is keeping the chamber free of the hard carbon layer that tends to develop. The rds need to go in freely so the rim will seat against the barrel face. You can't be wasting the firing pin hit pushing the case that last little bit into the chamber so the rim is against the barrel face. This seems to be more important.

Last edited by KTGunsmithing; 01-14-2017 at 09:23 AM.
  #12  
Old 01-14-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTGunsmithing View Post
Let's keep this realistic. HE "tested" the firing pin after HE'd stoned and shaped the tip of because as delivered the tip was pretty awful. Something that can be done with any of the OE or aftermarket firing pins.
I agree completely. I always tune the extractor, firing pin, hammer, and so on in every semi-auto I purchase. My "~~old firing pin~~" hits are every bit as deep and as well defined as those produced in this "test". And not only on "easy" Mini-Mags, but also on "hard" Winchester bulk white box ammo.

Quote:
What seems more important is keeping the chamber free of the hard carbon layer that tends to develop.
Also more important to eliminating FTFires than the firing pin is eliminating friction in the hammer group and maintaining perfect alignment. These 2 things are typically at odds with each other, but not with my "frictionless hammer group" design that SGW has called "STUPID". He has never seen it, tried it, or designed anything that can compare to it. Over 10,000 perfect firings with no failures - including thousands of Winchesters. 150 CCI rounds really does prove nothing more than that the ~~new firing pin~~ works.
  #13  
Old 01-14-2017, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTGunsmithing View Post
Probably because the firing pin tip was stoned and shaped. In HIS other new firing pin post HE stated (and showed) the deplorable rolled over tip the pin came out of the package with.
Once again, you've proven you don't know diarrhea from good brown gravy. You were nowhere near when this testing was done, so you don't know squat as to how the testing was done. Never have I seen someone like you who insists on making a complete arse out of himself.
  #14  
Old 01-14-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer47 View Post
Well, SGW must have something here..
The keeper on my new VQ spring kit already has a small notch in it where the firing pin rides under it.
I doubt VQ went to the extra trouble unless they thought it was needed.
I've been working on, and with, these Ruger Mark pistols for 45+ years, all of the variations involved and with all of the myriad of problems that can be involved with these guns.
The two pitiful detractors that seem to follow my posts around like a couple of mutt puppies, just seem to be remiss concerning how to analyze any of the real world issues that can befall these pistols. My preference is to fix the problem involved, not to re-invent the wheel through some "goofy" part adaptation that the common, ordinary owner can not do himself.

Not too long ago I received a PM from "Test Engineer" himself, almost in tears because he couldn't figure out how to get a set of bearings pressed into a Ruger Mark III hammer. He gave me such a sad story about how he couldn't trust anyone locally to do the job, and he didn't possess the skills of knowledge of where to even start and if I would PLEASE, PLEASE help him out and get it done properly. Reluctantly, I accepted to do what his "whining and wailing" request involved. The outcome turned out perfectly and I didn't need to use the set of extra bearings he also sent along. Personally, I thought it was indeed a "GOOFY" idea that has absolutely no cure, and it's not a job 99.9% of the folks involved with RFC would most likely want, or be able to do. My opinion and I'm sure that of others.



The cost involved? The cost of 3 brand new hammers! I have seen another post from the above member with a very blurry picture attempting to get a straightened out paper-clip under the firing pin as installed in a Ruger Mark pistol bolt. IMPOSSIBLE to do, if anyone would actually try it. "boormer47" has encountered something that's been going on since 1949. Firing pins have been rubbing on the underside of that brace/rod support ever since, and in some cases it does slow the firing pin down quite a bit.
Any self described, actual gunsmith (really a parts changer rather than fixer) who deals with these pistols on a regular basis would know these things, rather than speculate on what may have been done. Ever wonder WHY? we never read about any true, actual fixes involving Ruger Mark pistols that come off KT's keyboard? Never seen a worthwhile contribution yet, only bickering and attempts at disruption. Let's all hope this is NOT the direction RFC wants to travel, or continue to go for.

Last edited by SGW Gunsmith; 01-14-2017 at 10:51 AM.
  #15  
Old 01-14-2017, 10:53 AM
KTGunsmithing
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Look at post #12 here: https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=828346 and compare the "as delivered" firing pin with the one pictured in post #1 of this thread...
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