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Old 12-01-2011, 07:36 PM
23's Dad
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Dec. NRA Light Rifle & NRA Smallbore Position Match (Post your Scores and Photos)



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PM me with corrections

Last edited by 23's Dad; 12-30-2011 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Posted Scores
  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 07:36 PM
23's Dad
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The Rules

MATCH RULES

This rules summary is based on NRA Smallbore Rule Book with slight modifications to attract as many people as possible.
The two classes will keep things fair, utilize the NRA Ladder (so you can track your progress from Marksman to Expert level),
and allow for 50ft, 75ft/25yd and 50yd ranges to compete together in same group.

We will have two match classes:
  1. 4P NRA Conventional Smallbore (for those with advanced equipment), using A-17, A-7 or A-23 target at 50ft, 75ft/25yd, or 50yd.
  2. 4P NRA Light Rifle (for those with regular sporting rifles), using A-32 / A-32-Modified or A-31 target at 50ft or 50yd.

Key modifications to NRA 4P rules:
  • Any rim-fire caliber.
  • Open, peep and telescopic sights will shoot separately.
  • Positions are:
    4P (Prone, Standing, Sitting, Kneeling - shot in that order
    )

    Note: if you cannot shoot from all four positions (either range rules, physical limitation, or any other alibi) you may shoot any combination of the following:
    Standing AND/OR Prone AND/OR Unsupported Bench (elbows on bench and sling only- instead of prone)

    These alternate positions are scored and recorded separately and are NOT a combined 2P class.

Guys & gals, don't worry about the "humbling" experience after shooting this course the first few times. We've all been there. I promise you steady improvement if you stick to it.

As long as this online match gives you a reason to go out there, practice position shooting and move you up the skills ladder I think we have succeeded. Monthly match results are just to make it fun. Don't forget, sanctioned NRA matches are scored at each skill level separately.

Learning Links:
I strongly recommend attending a local Appleseed (http://appleseedinfo.org/) to improve your position shooting skills.

USAMU Shooting Tips:

http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/US...ootingTips.htm

See this CMP pdf for correct body positions:

http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/publicatio...ePositions.pdf

KEEP A JOURNAL!
http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/publicatio...rs_Journal.pdf

or

http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/publications/PDFs/ASJ_web.pdf - I prefer this one because it has reminders about key elemets of the positions


Books to consider:
  • "Leather Sling and Shooting Positions" by Jim Owens
  • "Competitive Shooting" by A.A. Yur'Yev
  • "Ways of the Rifle" by Gaby Buhlmann
  • "Rifle Steps to Success" or "Rifle: Steps to Success" by Launi Meili
  • "Olympic Target Rifle Shooting" by Ralf Horneber
  • "Shooting for Gold" by William Krilling
  • "Rifle Shooting as a Sport" by Bernd Klingner

We will use NRA Smallbore Rifle Rules with the following slight modifications marked in BOLD RED.

1) 4P NRA Conventional Smallbore (Rules: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBoo.../sbr-index.pdf)

Rifle
Safe any caliber rimfire rifle (.17 cal. use NRA .22 cal scoring gauge to make it fair), with no weight restrictions. Adjustable butt plate , palm rests, Schuetzen type butt plates, etc. can be used (see NRA Smallbore Rules).

Other Equipment and Accessories

- Clothing, padding, shooting jackets, slings, etc. allowed (see NRA Smallbore Rules).
- Use a shooting mat, a thick painters mat from Home Depot, couple of yoga/camping foam mats, or an old piece of carpet will do. I also recommend knee/elbow pads (Home Depot) and a bunch of rolled up towels to make a Kneeling Roll for comfort and thus better scores.

Sights
“O-Class“ - open iron sighted rifles,
"C-Class" - closed non-magnified iron sighted rifles (aperture or peep sights), non-magnified red dot,
“T-Class” - telescopic, magnified aperture and magnified red dot.

Target and Distance Options
A-17 target, 50 feet, one shot per bulls-eye.
A-7 target, 75 feet / 25 yards, max. two shots per bulls-eye.
A-23 target, 50 yards, five shots per bulls-eye.
Many indoor ranges require you to use their targets ($), so just tape yours on top of theirs.


2) 4P NRA Light Rifle (Sitting position added to regular rules) (Rules Section 22: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBoo.../sbr-index.pdf)

Rifle

Safe any caliber rimfire rifle (.17 cal. use NRA .22 cal scoring gauge to make it fair), having a trigger pull of not less than 2 pounds, and weighing pounds or less (including sights & sling). Adjustable butt plate permitted if placed in center position. No palm rests, Schuetzen type butt plates, etc. (see NRA Light Rifle Rules).

Other Equipment and Accessories

- Clothing, padding, etc. (see NRA Light Rifle Rules).
- Non-shooting leather work glove may be used to protect forehand from sling swivel.
- A basic military sling or carry sling not to exceed 1 ¼" width may be used in all but standing position (get one here http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart...id=10&cat_id=0).
- Use a shooting mat, a thick painters mat from Home Depot, couple of yoga/camping foam mats, or an old piece of carpet will do. I also recommend knee/elbow pads (Home Depot) and a bunch of rolled up towels to make a Kneeling Roll for comfort and thus better scores.

Sights
“O-Class“ - open iron sighted rifles,
"C-Class" - closed non-magnified iron sighted rifles (aperture or peep sights), non-magnified red dot,
“T-Class” - telescopic, magnified aperture and magnified red dot (maximum 6X).

Target and Distance Options
A-32 target, 50 feet, two shots per bulls-eye. This target is allowed, but not preferued. If you have these targets on-hand, you may continue to use them until exhausted.
A-32-Modified target, 50 feet, two shots per bulls-eye (modified to preserve same aspect ratio with A-31, as there is between A-17 and A-23).
A-31 target, 50 yards, five shots per bulls-eye.
Many indoor ranges require you to use their targets ($), so just tape yours on top of theirs.


Rest of this post applies to both 4P NRA Conventional Smallbore and 4P NRA Light Rifle classes.


Order good quality targets here: http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/rifle/
or Download printable target pdf-s
(PM CZ452UltraLux with issues):
(Make sure you have PAGE SCALING set to NONE in Acrobat Print Menu to print correct size).

A-17 (50ft - 8.5 MOA black) (be careful which bull you are shooting or cross shooting as they are close together)- http://www.box.net/shared/2edlrdfnmh
A-7 (75ft/25yd) - http://www.box.net/shared/4atdqu8av0
A-23 (50yd - 7.4 MOA black) - http://www.box.net/shared/m6rf4535ci - OR 2 Bulls on Legal Paper http://www.box.net/shared/9e8mngxnua
A-32 (50ft - 10.7 MOA black) - Allowed but not prefered. Use A-32 (Modified) instead.
A-32 (Modified) (50ft - 7.8 MOA black) - http://www.box.net/shared/1azpbyvr7f
A-31 (50yd - 8.8 MOA black) - http://www.box.net/shared/2rjit37svf - OR 2 Bulls on Legal Paper http://www.box.net/shared/an3qjul4yi

Course of Fire
Distance: 50 Feet, 75ft/25yd (for Conventional Smallbore) or 50 Yards (all compete together due to target re-sizing)

Positions: Prone, Standing (no sling), Sitting (added to Light Rifle class), Kneeling - shot in that order.
OR for those that can't do all 4 positions (scored separately - NOT a combined 2P class)
- Standing (no sling)
- Unsupported Bench (sitting with elbows on the bench without any support other then sling) - instead of prone.
Time: 15 minutes per position (10 shoots - average 90 sec. per shot), with 5 minute change-over (break) and 5 minute "prep time" before each position with "unlimited sighting shots", for a total of 100 minutes to complete all 4 positions.

Those shooting standing and unsupported bench have 40 minutes total time to complete (15 min each position, with two 5 minute change-overs (breaks) and two "prep times" of 5 min. each).

No. of Shots in each position: 10 (Max. 1 shot per bull on A-17 and A32-Modified, Max. 2 shots per bull on A-7, A-32, and Max. 5 shots per bull on A-23, A-31)

Max. Points: 400-40x
100-10x each (for those shooting standing and unsupported bench only)

Many indoor ranges don't allow prone shooting due to lack of space, but if you ask to be placed at the end of the firing line I think they can make an exception.


SCORING and POSTING
I'm sure we all agree that an online postal match has to be based on an honor system, so just a reminder to use consecutive shoots/targets.

Use official NRA .22 cal inward scoring gauge in deciding doubtful shots (touching ring (not cracked) = inside ring score).
Shooters using .17 cal. use NRA .22 cal scoring gauge to make it fair.

Get a $6 plain gauge or $10 magnified here (I recommend magnified): http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Scoring_Gauges-335.aspx

For scoring Xs on 50ft/75ft A-17/A-32/A-7 targets please see NRA Smallbore Rule Book - Section 14: Scoring.

We'll score 2 classes, Conventional Smallbore and Light Rifle.
Each class will have a 4P category, plus Standing and Unsupported Bench/Prone categories separately, NOT a combined 2P category.
Those shooting 4P can have their standing and prone scores applied in the Standing and Unsupported Bench/Prone categories as well.

Post:
- 4P total and number of Xs, and each position total score plus number of Xs (or just your Standing and Unsupported Bench/Prone score with Xs) followed by your RFC name and state.
- Competition class (NRA Smallbore or NRA Light Rifle), Sight category (O, C, T class), and NRA Ladder Rating (don't forget to count just standing, kneeling and prone in Light Rifle class).
- Equipment used with details.
- Range distance and weather conditions.
- Pictures of the target if you can.
How?
Use http://imageshack.us/, browse for picture of your target, click upload, copy (Ctrl-C) the link next to words "Direct Link", in your RFC post use "Insert Image" icon (the yellow icon with the mountains) and paste the link you just copied. Image of your target should show up in your post.

E.g.
338-10X (80-1X, 83-2X, 85-3X, 90-4X) - BigGuns, FL
NRA Light Rifle, C-Class, Sharpshooter (missed Expert by 2pts 253 vs 255 - don't forget to count just standing, kneeling and prone in Light Rifle class).
CZ 452, Wolf Match Target ammo, BRNO Sights
Receiver glass bedded,
50 yd, Sunny, 86 Degrees, Wind 5mph at 3 o'clock gusting to 10mph
Pictures

NRA Skill Ladders (to track your progress from Marksman to Expert level).

3P NRA Light Rifle Ladder
Combine your standing, kneeling and prone scores to compare against 3P Light Rifle Ladder.



4P NRA Smallbore Ladder

"Offhand Only" and "Prone Only" ratings in Smallbore class are to be calculated as follows (% of 100 possible points for each position):

Pro-Marksman: 50% prone/bench, 40% standing;
Marksman: 63% prone/bench, 50% standing;
Marksman 1st Class: 75% prone/bench, 60% standing;
Sharpshooter: 83% prone/bench, 70% standing;
Expert: 90% prone/bench, 80% standing;
Distinguished Expert: 96% prone/bench, 91% standing;



Last edited by 23's Dad; 12-01-2011 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Posted Rules
  #3  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:17 PM
richwagner
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4 December Shooting

I made it out for a string today, so far my best this season.

4 Dec 2011 4P
355-14X (99-8x, 84-0x, 97-5x, 75-1) - richwagner, PA
NRA 4P Smallbore, C-Class, (Score qualified for Sharpshooter, but I am shooting for my Expert in the aggregate course)

Anschutz 1407 (1978 Year model), 6705 sight set, 4oz trigger
50 Foot Inside, low 60's,
Wolf Match Target Rifle Ammo
Canvas jacket, International type sling and glove.

I missed Expert by 1 point.... My knee is killing my kneeling, getting old sucks!


Prone. Standing.

Sitting. Kneeling.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2011, 07:34 PM
23's Dad
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Nice shooting Rich!

I got out on Saturday too, but wasn't as sucessful.

338-4(91-0, 72-0, 89-3, 86-1) - 23's Dad, CA
342-4(94-2, 79-0, 93-2, 76-0) - 23's Dad, CA
Smallbore, C-Class, Sharpshooter
1962 Anschutz 1409 Heavy Barrel, Wolf MT, Anschutz 6705 rear sight, Tiger Sight Front, 2 stage 1407-U9 trigger, Palm Rest
50-ft Indoors, 50 degrees

1st Card:



2nd Card:



Having a little more trouble with my astigmatism. I'm working on it, but I really struggle in prone. I think it's a cheek-weld pressure issue, dry contacts, and left-eye dominance that make a perfect storm...

The reason I think it's a cheek-weld issue, is that I'm not getting as much distortion of the front sight in the other positions - especially offhand. It's perfectly clear! In prone, I'm getting a canted figure 8 in my sight picture. If I back off, blink, and close my eyes for a few seconds, it improves - briefly and then starts to fade again. ahhhh!

I started on a card with my scoped M37, but I was getting the rumblys that only sushi could fill. I bailed on the range and met the wife for dinner.
  #5  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:39 AM
richwagner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23's Dad View Post
Having a little more trouble with my astigmatism. I'm working on it, but I really struggle in prone. I think it's a cheek-weld pressure issue, dry contacts, and left-eye dominance that make a perfect storm...

The reason I think it's a cheek-weld issue, is that I'm not getting as much distortion of the front sight in the other positions - especially offhand. It's perfectly clear! In prone, I'm getting a canted figure 8 in my sight picture. If I back off, blink, and close my eyes for a few seconds, it improves - briefly and then starts to fade again. ahhhh!

I started on a card with my scoped M37, but I was getting the rumblys that only sushi could fill. I bailed on the range and met the wife for dinner.
Is your 1409 one of the ones with the adjustable cheek piece or was yours from before that? My 1407 is one from before the adjustable cheek piece and years ago I found in prone I was often way too high to look straight through the rear sight. I found that a set of sight riser blocks fixed this.

Rich
  #6  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:47 AM
23's Dad
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Quote:
Is your 1409 one of the ones with the adjustable cheek piece or was yours from before that? My 1407 is one from before the adjustable cheek piece and years ago I found in prone I was often way too high to look straight through the rear sight. I found that a set of sight riser blocks fixed this
My 1409 has a fixed cheek piece.

Hmmm, need sight risers? I would have thought just the opposite. I'll have to try it!

Thanks, Brad

Last edited by 23's Dad; 12-07-2011 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Removed broken photo link
  #7  
Old 12-07-2011, 07:47 AM
richwagner
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Sight Risers

The need for risers will vary. When you get into your best prone position (tight and if possibly you can reload without taking stock away from your shoulder), look through the sights, do you have to struggle to look straight through the rear sight (possibly looking into the top of the rubber cup)? If you are not looking straight through the sight you need to determine if they are too high or too low. If sights are too low, a set of riser blocks will help. If sights are too high you might be able to build up your cheek piece a bit (I used foam insulation and duct tape on a rifle for Appleseed shooting that had a scope mounted high). Just remember to check your other positions, you may need to tweak your position to adjust for the addition of sight blocks. Blocks come in different heights, Champion Shooters or Champions Choice has them.

Rich
  #8  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:19 AM
23's Dad
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Thanks!

I'll get #23 to help me.

I would guess that the comb is too low, at least that's what I "feel", but I'll get it checked out.

BTW, I spent a little time browsing on the Champion Shooters and Champion Choice websites last night. I found out that the older rifles need a particular riser for the front sight AGH 6713/2 is the one I'll need to adapt to the dovetail block.

Thanks again!
  #9  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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I haven't abandoned this contest, guys! With the end of the semester (I am a professor) and deer season and the holidays, I just won't have time to get back into rimfire shooting until January. But I'll be posting scores in January.

Have a Blessed Christmas and Joyous New Year!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. - C.S. Lewis
  #10  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:29 PM
richwagner
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Sight Block types

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23's Dad View Post
I'll get #23 to help me.

BTW, I spent a little time browsing on the Champion Shooters and Champion Choice websites last night. I found out that the older rifles need a particular riser for the front sight AGH 6713/2 is the one I'll need to adapt to the dovetail block.

Thanks again!
Yea, I often forget to mention that because I have a 1407 and 1810, up through the 18xx series the sights were pretty much the same. Either when the 19xx was released or some time after they changed the way the front sight attaches and in stead of the typical sight base we had been used to they grooved the barrel and mounted directly to that. There are also some aftermarket ones available that may be cheaper. One thing to look for if you get riser blocks is if you move your sight between positions, the Anschutz blocks have a scale on them just like the receivers do.

Rich
  #11  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:42 PM
clydesdale
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Do you guys typically set up your rifle ergonomics to maximize a particular position? I was noticing that my head position is good for prone and standing but sitting and kneeling were both too far or too near the scope's primary FOV. In discussing this with a fellow shooter, she mentioned that she sets the best scope position for standing and suffers a bit in the other positions. I have adjustments available which I use for the butt plate and fore end hand position but unfortunately I don't have an adjustable comb or length-of-pull. I'm just interested what others are doing.

-Randy
  #12  
Old 12-07-2011, 04:22 PM
richwagner
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Randy,
If I remember correctly you are using a Winchester 52, is that correct? Do you have an adjustable butt plate on yours (up down or in & out)? I have 2 rifles I use, a 1407 standard rifle that allows me to adjust the butt up and down, no length of pull. I also have an 1810 free rifle, which has more changes than I can count. For now I only shoot the free rifle in prone because it takes too much to change the rifle from one position to the next and since I only shoot once or twice a month, I am very slow at it. If I was shooting more often I would use it but for now I have it setup for prone. For position shooting I am using the standard rifle and I change what I can for each position, that means I adjust the up/down on the butt plate, hand stop position, rear sight position (my rear sight slides front to back), and sling length. In prone the butt plate is typically high, sight is forward, hand-stop further out. As I work up from the ground in positions, the butt plate goes lower, the hand stop comes in and except for sitting the rear sight moves back (closer to the shooter). I really like the standard rifle and for most of us who aren’t looking to get real serious about competition, I think something with simple adjustments like that are best.
I actually created a chart which list all my possible adjustments and what I set them to for each position which helps me repeat them consistently. I try to configure my positions to allow minimal movement for reloading but remain somewhat comfortable.

Rich
  #13  
Old 12-07-2011, 06:56 PM
clydesdale
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I have most of those same adjustments. I run the butt plate about a half inch high for prone and about an inch and a half low for sitting and kneeling. For offhand I use the butt hook about the same inch and a half low. Hand stop is farthest for kneeling and closest for prone. I hadn't thought to move the rear sight. With the scope on there now I only just realized my head position was changing-- I never really noticed it with the peep. I would have been tempted to come up with a way to increase the length of pull by an inch or so for the scope, but it seems that moving the rear sight in would allow me an easier fix when shooting C-Class. How does that affect point of impact (in general).? I guess I could just move the sight forward and then re-sight and mark down the MOA offset as it may be just a few clicks if at all.
  #14  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:27 PM
richwagner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydesdale View Post
How does that affect point of impact (in general).? I guess I could just move the sight forward and then re-sight and mark down the MOA offset as it may be just a few clicks if at all.
I usually only have about 1 or 2 clicks of change needed when changing positions. I always fire a few sighters in each position. I think it's worth it for the benefit moving the sight. As for the but plate up or down, that takes a little testing and practice to get the right settings. Lots of non-fireing practice at home to build a good position.

Rich
  #15  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:22 PM
clydesdale
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I think I have good list of adjustments to make for each position and it is starting to make a huge difference. My coaches Paula and Chuck adjusted my kneeling position with a larger roll and more upright foot and a slightly longer sling. Sitting improved by being more upright and unbuttoning the bottom two buttons of my coat. Paula recommended a better shooting order; I had been shooting bulls in order horizontally and then down a row. She had me shoot sighters then center top and bottom then left top to bottom and right top to bottom. You can hold your horizontal set point when reloading that way.

368-12X (97-5X, 82-1X, 95-2X, 94-4X) - Randy(clydesdale), IL
Smallbore T-Class, UR
Winchester 52D, Wolf MT, Simmons 3-9X32 @ 6X AO
A-17 target at 50 ft., indoor



Images to follow

99-8X Prone - Randy(clydesdale), IL
Smallbore T-Class, UR
Winchester 52D, Wolf MT, Simmons 3-9X32 @ 6X AO
A-17 target at 50 ft., indoor



73-0X Offhand - Randy(clydesdale), IL
Smallbore T-Class, UR
Winchester 52D, Wolf MT, Simmons 3-9X32 @ 6X AO
A-17 target at 50 ft., indoor


Image to follow

Last edited by clydesdale; 12-08-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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