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  #1  
Old 11-14-2019, 05:07 AM
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Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot



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G'day all.
I'm hoping to get some input from other 101 owners.
Specifically in regard to the finish and general machining of your example of this rifle.
I've been away from the sport for quite some time, buying the 101 recently to have a bit of a play at the range and get back into the swing of things.
So far it's been less than a pleasant experience.
I've been documenting it over on the Enough Gun Forum, here's a cut and paste, but please have a read of that thread and give me your take on the 'quality' of my example of this rifle.

Quote:
G'day troops. New member and first time poster here.
After a number of years away from the shooting game, Ive returned and recently purchased a LA101.
This was prefaced with a lot of internet reading and trolling through the forums (this one included) as to what might be the go for a little benchrest 22 as a fresh start back into the sport.
I narrowed it down to one of the CZ's - I was leaning toward the 457, or the la101 - despite some of the internet chat regarding feed issues and the heavy'ish, non adjustable trigger that some had commented on, both brands were mentioned often for their accuracy.
I went with the 101, partly Aussie pride, partly nostalgic (first gun i ever shot as a kid was a little lithgow repeater), So I ordered it a few weeks ago and collected it last Tuesday.
It's first shoot was at the local range yesterday and of course I was pretty excited to try it out.
First shot - failed to fire.
OK, disappointing - but maybe I hadn't cleaned it as well as I should have was the thought in my head... (I was thinking machine oil/manufacturing grease in the bolt/firing pin assy) I rechambered that round - and it fired ok.
So, fast forward an hour and 70 rounds later, by then I'd had 5 fail to fire and one feed issue.
Unfortunately, I was on limited time and had to pack up at that point and head off to another appointment and I wont be back to the range for another week.
Ammo was CCI standard.
I know there are loads of posts online about optimum striker size/position blah blah, but I really should not be having this issue with a brand new gun straight out of the box.
I'm giving it a weeks grace, in the meantime I'll be disassembling the bolt assy to make sure there's nothing obvious in there affecting it.
I'll return to the range next week for a second go.
Pics attached of three cases that on first strike failed to fire, it's pretty obvious in the photograph that one is a lighter strike on the rim than the other.
I've also attached some pics of the bolt face and firing pin - Now I'm usually a glass half full type of guy and I don't think I have unrealistic expectations, but the machine marks on that bolt face are not what I was expecting to see on a brand new gun that on the whole, is getting a lot of rave reviews.

Does anyone have any ideas on things I should check before I start talking to my dealer or the people at Lithgow and I'm also interested in your thoughts on the machining marks on the bolt face.

Thanks in advance.
Plinkster might have been "Very pleased" but I've been extremely dis-pleased with the example that I have ended up with and I hope this is not the norm.
I'd appreciate if others would examine theirs and let me know if this is the new 'normal' for machining on a firearm that comes at a premium price.
To say I'm disappointed is the understatement of the century.
Have a flick through that post, in the meantime, here's some photographs of my disappointment

Gun is less than 3 weeks old.
Dealer is sending it back for warranty assessment
I want it replaced and to never see this one again.

Very much appreciate if others could post a few pics so I know if this is a one off bad example or how things are now...

Thanks in advance.

Michael
Attached Images
File Type: jpg la101boltfacemachinemarks1a.jpg (71.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg la101boltfacemachinemarks2a.jpg (74.2 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg la101boltfacemachinemarks4a.jpg (59.8 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg la101firingpinrace3a.jpg (69.5 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg la101firingpinrace4a.jpg (62.6 KB, 20 views)
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_sa View Post
G'day all.
I'm hoping to get some input from other 101 owners.
Specifically in regard to the finish and general machining of your example of this rifle.



... but I've been extremely dis-pleased with the example that I have ended up with and I hope this is not the norm.
I'd appreciate if others would examine theirs and let me know if this is the new 'normal' for machining on a firearm that comes at a premium price.
To say I'm disappointed is the understatement of the century.
Have a flick through that post, in the meantime, here's some photographs of my disappointment

Gun is less than 3 weeks old.
Dealer is sending it back for warranty assessment
I want it replaced and to never see this one again.

Very much appreciate if others could post a few pics so I know if this is a one off bad example or how things are now...
I'll share my Lithgow 101 experience. I bought one in about September 2018. The rifle appeared to be well-made and quite robust, although I thought the stock wasn't quite as rugged as the barreled action -- but that's only an opinion. When I examined the bore with a borescope, I was less than pleased. The bore had pitting, with the last few inches near the muzzle in particular that was extensive. It was unacceptable for a new rifle.

I contacted the dealer as well as Lithgow in Australia. I sent borescope pictures. After a relatively short wait, I got word that the rifle would be replaced. It was. Lithgow dealt with me fairly and quickly. I prefer to believe my rifle's bore condition was an exception, rather than commonplace. The rifle that replaced the original one I bought had no problems when I examined the bore with the borescope. I don't know how it shot as I sold it without trying it.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
I'll share my Lithgow 101 experience. I bought one in about September 2018.
...
The bore had pitting, with the last few inches near the muzzle in particular that was extensive. It was unacceptable for a new rifle.
...
The rifle that replaced the original one I bought had no problems when I examined the bore with the borescope. I don't know how it shot as I sold it without trying it.
Thanks Penage Guy.
Irrespective of the outcome with mine, I'm going to move it on. I won't be keeping it after this experience and I'll never buy another or recommend one - which really hurts my pride about an Aussie made product.
Incidentally, I received an email from one of the engineers at LA this morning saying that what I am experiencing is not classified as a major defect and the gun should go back for repair as:

Quote:
...the rifle will be assessed and repaired as nothing that you have described falls into the category of major problem
... as it doesn’t have a major defect.
I'd have thought if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger, that's a major problem?
Pretty fundamental function of the firearm really. So I'm wondering just what exactly do they classify as a 'major defect'

So, did you sell your 101 because of what you experienced?
What did you replace it with?
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by michael_sa View Post
So, did you sell your 101 because of what you experienced?
What did you replace it with?
I sold the 101 that replaced the original one with the pitting in the barrel because it was, in my view, not worth the price tag it has in Canada. It was a case of cutting losses to a minimum and selling it as a new, never used, never fired rifle seemed like a better option than selling it as used. In hindsight I don't know if it being new-in-box gave any selling advantage, but that's what I thought at the time. Inevitably, I took a loss in the sale.

I liked the Lithgow, but at a little over $1400 in Canadian dollars ($1550 Australian) I came to believe it was overpriced. I used the money to help fund a rifle I felt would be more satisfying, an Anschutz.

What does the 101 cost in Australia? Even if it is half the Canadian price, it shouldn't have the problems you've described yours having.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
...
What does the 101 cost in Australia? Even if it is half the Canadian price, it shouldn't have the problems you've described yours having.
Hi Penage Guy.
Eighteen days ago I paid $1250 AU for mine (laminated/cerakote)

Do you remember, was the machining on your 101 anything like that on mine?
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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Michael,

I suggest you cycle a round in/out of the chamber without firing and inspect the bullet.

CCI SV is known to have longer than normal driving bands. In many match chambers, the bands will begin to engage the rifling by just closing the bolt. This will cause some of the firing pin energy to be absorbed by driving the rim across the headspace, before rim crushing can begin.

Many with match chambers avoid using CCI SV for this very reason - light strikes.

Reaming the chamber leade a little deeper is the only other option. I'd just find different ammo.

As far as the machining marks - it's a shame that manufacturers today don't replace dull blades as often as they should. But the marks are purely cosmetic. If they affected function, then they would be considered a 'major defect'.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_sa View Post
Hi Penage Guy.
Eighteen days ago I paid $1250 AU for mine (laminated/cerakote)

Do you remember, was the machining on your 101 anything like that on mine?
Thanks for the price. I don't know how much it costs to ship rifles from Down Under to North America, but there may be additional costs that are unseen.

I don't remember any machining marks on the rifle that ought not to have been there. Looking over the pictures I have of it, however, I now remember that in addition to the bore problems the barrel did not sit in the center of the barrel channel. I passed that along to Lithgow. I tried to adjust it as they suggested but if there was any improvement it was hardly noticeable. The replacement rifle did not have that problem.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Michael,

I suggest you cycle a round in/out of the chamber without firing and inspect the bullet.

CCI SV is known to have longer than normal driving bands. In many match chambers, the bands will begin to engage the rifling by just closing the bolt. This will cause some of the firing pin energy to be absorbed by driving the rim across the headspace, before rim crushing can begin.

Many with match chambers avoid using CCI SV for this very reason - light strikes.

Reaming the chamber leade a little deeper is the only other option. I'd just find different ammo.

As far as the machining marks - it's a shame that manufacturers today don't replace dull blades as often as they should. But the marks are purely cosmetic. If they affected function, then they would be considered a 'major defect'.
Thanks TE for the suggestion.
It also misfired on SK Match ammo.
It's back at the dealer and no longer in my possession so I won't be able to test any more ammo types in it.

Pic of SK Match round that misfired. I don't have any CCI std's that misfired to take photos of, as I re-fed them and they fired the second time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20191109_144351.jpg (580.4 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by michael_sa; 11-15-2019 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Added photograph
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:11 PM
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I just ordered a Lithgow LA 101 this week. It should be here sometime next week.
Here's hoping the machinging is better !
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:21 PM
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I just ordered a Lithgow LA 101 this week. It should be here sometime next week.
Here's hoping the machinging is better !
Hi 1275midget,
I reckon I was just lucky enough to get the bad apple.
Congrats on your purchase - Keep me posted though!
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:58 PM
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You absolutely must have gotten a fluke. These are awesome rifles for their low price range. The service from the dealers and from the factory are stellar. I don't care whose brand you buy, these things happen. As a stock rifle, except I put the lighter trigger spring on it, I will put this rifle up against any stock CZ, and it will hang with the higher end Anshutz ..... all day. For an inexpensive rifle, it is a competition rifle out of the box.
Mine is Laminate, maybe a year old, maybe a 1000 rounds down the barrel, and she shoots lights out. I have used this "stock" LA101 in a match competing against many custom rifles, and I finished in the middle of the pack. No, it won't beat a $5k or more rifle, but it sure tries to give it a run for it's money. Always called mine the CZ killer, even after all the crazy mods to the CZ.
Pappy
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:21 PM
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For an inexpensive rifle, it is a competition rifle out of the box.
Pappy
Pappy, what is the price for the LA101 in the US?
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
Michael,

I suggest you cycle a round in/out of the chamber without firing and inspect the bullet.

CCI SV is known to have longer than normal driving bands. In many match chambers, the bands will begin to engage the rifling by just closing the bolt. This will cause some of the firing pin energy to be absorbed by driving the rim across the headspace, before rim crushing can begin.

Many with match chambers avoid using CCI SV for this very reason - light strikes.

Reaming the chamber leade a little deeper is the only other option. I'd just find different ammo.

As far as the machining marks - it's a shame that manufacturers today don't replace dull blades as often as they should. But the marks are purely cosmetic. If they affected function, then they would be considered a 'major defect'.
Greetings all , reading the forum I had to join in with my humble opinion. Been shooting my Lithgow for over a season now and really like her . It's my favorite card cutting gun . True here in Canada the price is high $1400.00 so you really have to want one.
That being said the one thing that I was not impressed with was the walnut stock , looked a little cheap , fee.ls good but I want to replace it with one of the ''Hatcher'' stocks from Australia .

When it comes to ammo the gun and I both don't like CCI SV or Quiet , RWS Club and Rifle Target are favorites.

Compares to CZ 457's quite well , I have an MTR .17 MTR which is my favorite 200 mtr gun.

Receiving any product new that happen to be a challenge is the pits .... skwerl
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skwerl457 View Post
...

When it comes to ammo the gun and I both don't like CCI SV or Quiet , RWS Club and Rifle Target are favorites.
...
Hi skwerl and thanks for the reply.

I'm assuming when you say the gun doesn't like CCI you're meaning accuracy wise? Mine has had less than 200 shots through it, most of those were CCI, the balance being SK Match.
Have you had any mis-fires that you can't attribute to dodgy ammo?
I had mis-fires on both which is why the gun has been returned to the dealer. It's been sent back for assessment - I'm expecting (and not happy) that I'll probably be getting the same gun back.
Any chance of posting a pic or two of the bolt-face on yours and the internals where the firing pin runs - just to compare to mine?

Thanks again.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:21 PM
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I had my LA 101 at the range this morning. It was very windy. Reading wind is not my strength. The two best groups were about a third or quarter of an inch at 50 yards. I have the original springs in it and find the weight of pull no longer a problem as the rifle continues to be broken in. The couple outstanding groups I take to show what the rifle is capable of with a more consistent better shooter using it.

MY LA 101 has the plastic stock acquired because of the adjustable length of pull. I was using a 3 to 9 power Leopold scope set at 9X. Better results would be had with a more powerful scope which I plan to occasionally do.

I find this an outstanding rimfire. Paid about $950 in the States for it about a year or so ago. Have about 500 rounds through it. Was planning to change out the spring, but now doing so well with it I currently see no reason to do anything to it. In another 500 rounds revisiting the spring change might happen.

Like most here my safe has a collection of good rimfires and this Lithgow is quickly becoming a favorite. My plan is to use it consistently enough to become proficient with it. It is that good. Built like a tank and accurate too.

What concerned me is that I had considered acquiring a centerfire Lithgow and notice they have had a number of recalls on them. Don't have any need for a centerfire, but just wondered if it would be as nice as the rimfire.

MY example of a LA 101 is outstanding and hoping they are able to produce similar quality product without decline.
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