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  #1  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:43 PM
aslap

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OnTarget TDS for tuner tuning



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I've only fooled around with one other tuner so this is no expert analysis by any means. It may be interesting to some, however.

The last time I messed with a tuner I did find a good spot and it was arrived at by shooting numerous two shot groups. Seems to be a good tune since the rifle shoots pretty good in my eyes. I purchased the OnTarget TDS program a while back simply so I could combine more than 5 or ten shots into a single group from different targets into one "mother of all groups". This I did and was (am) very happy with the program. What especially got me was the ability to use the program-generated targets and then be able to not only get a target total but be able to parse each 5 shot row. The light goes on over my head less and less these days but it popped right on over this! What better way to adjust a tuner than to actually shoot the rounds more like you would during a match as opposed to just popping off groups while the rifle sits in one position. I have a specific rifle that I have shot many a great group with (.2 or less CTC) but yet the act of shooting for score leaves me feeling depressed. I know, I know there are many factors involved when one puts the cross hairs on the target for score but this is just about seeing what the TDS program can do for helping get a gun tuned.

I went out a couple of days ago when a miracle occurred here in Pittsburgh - no rain and wind not exceeding 2 MPH!! We haven't seen that in a month of Sundays, it seems. It was overcast and rain was expected later in the day but I figured I had at least three good hours to putz around. As usual, the weather forecast was wrong and the rain started right as I was shooting the tuner at the 500 setting after i had been at the range for about an hour. I had done the zero to 400 numbers and as the rain was beginning to wash away the ink on the target, I grabbed everything and headed home to look at the targets.

Obviously, this is not an immediate gratification scenario. I was able to tell where my best groups were w/o the OnTarget analysis but the extra data from each row is, I think, important.

Now the challenge is to get another good shooting day here before I forget where I left the rifle! The pix are self explanatory and I know where I'll be starting the next round of tuner adjustments.

Tony



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  #2  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:15 PM
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Bill40718
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Question What tuner

Hey Tony,


What tuner were you using?
Any additional weights?
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2019, 08:19 PM
aslap

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Bone stock Harrelís

Bill,

I have an extra weight for it that feels like maybe 3-4 ounces but didnít use it. Any recommendations for the extra weight.

Tony
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:40 PM
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Yup,


Use them for fishing weights!
Seriously, I'd PM Lee, Hi-NV Shooter, and talk to him about light tuners.
I'm using one about 4.5oz +- and it's the best I've used so far. He's been testing with the lite tuners for some time and may well have a suggestion or two.

Good luck.


P.S. How is your lady coming along?
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2019, 12:44 PM
aslap

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I've seen the lite tuners

Bill,

Maybe H-NV will chime in. That's something I'd also like to try.

My lady friend is still working on it. Maybe she's not my friend anymore.

Tony
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2019, 01:01 PM
FredJ_2008
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Ammo Choice

What ammo are you using? So little information as to the barrel length.
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:27 PM
aslap

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My mistake!

Fred,

You are correct. I forgot everything about the rifle and the ammo.

10X X3L action; 26" long Shilen ratchet; B&A trigger; Stith stock; Weaver T36; my own homemade one piece rest. Ammo was Center X and if the rumors are correct the speed would have been 1077 fps (329 m/s).

It looks like I might get out again this Friday afternoon. I'll post those results if anything looks interesting.

Tony
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:11 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslap View Post
Fred,

You are correct. I forgot everything about the rifle and the ammo.

10X X3L action; 26" long Shilen ratchet; B&A trigger; Stith stock; Weaver T36; my own homemade one piece rest. Ammo was Center X and if the rumors are correct the speed would have been 1077 fps (329 m/s).

It looks like I might get out again this Friday afternoon. I'll post those results if anything looks interesting.

Tony
Hi Tony, I am assuming that you are using a Harrell tuner? and the barrel is .900 at 26" anyway I would try and use only adjustments of 5 clicks at a time. reason being that going a very big amount at a time as indicated by your targets, you probably missed a setting that would shoot better than what the targets show, also I would use 3-shots and not 5. again it will help speed the tuning process, if any shot goes out from your POA go on to the next setting adjustment. when you think you found a good setting, then shoot 5-10 shots to see how it holds up.

as for a lighter tuner, I been having great results with ones that weigh 4-4.5 oz.
only. I also found the J&L tuner usable as it weighs 4.75 oz. I put one on a H&R M12 and have been getting really good results, however I am using a Scotts mid-barrel with it, goal is to get it to shoot the same or better with just the tuner only.
best results so far- tuner at a setting of 40 Lapua CX lot # 1597 27 or 28 speed can't remember, as I was shooting 3 different lots.

as for using weights when tuning, I have in the past and had great results, but feel they narrow the window of different lot speeds to shoot good.
send me a PM if you are interested in trying a lighter tuner.

Lee
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:17 AM
vlnbyr

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It looks like I might get out again this Friday afternoon. I'll post those results if anything looks interesting.

Tony[/QUOTE]

The Braxton range will be open Friday, a bunch of us will be there testing. Pack a bag test Friday shoot Sat. & Sun. John
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:14 PM
TrxR

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It was suggested to me a few years ago to use extra weight on my harrels tuner do to the length and size of the barrel? Its a factory 40x heavy barrel from 1959. Its 28" long? I got to go do a thorough test on it and was going to use the hopewell method. Should i use or not use the weight?
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:20 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrxR View Post
It was suggested to me a few years ago to use extra weight on my harrels tuner do to the length and size of the barrel? Its a factory 40x heavy barrel from 1959. Its 28" long? I got to go do a thorough test on it and was going to use the hopewell method. Should i use or not use the weight?
TrxR, you don't just want to add weight unless you need to. I done both ways of tuning with weight and without and have found using the least amount works best.

Tuning is about barrel timing, with weight you are simply slowing down the barrel to shoot within a narrow window and therefore IMO limit which ammo speeds will shoot. I am sure you heard of shooters referencing a certain speed their rifle liked, I did this myself for years.
getting back to your question, a stiff barrel normally requires less weight on the tuner, or no weight at all.
using the Hopewell method will work and has for years, I suggest a modified version, by starting at the zero setting on the tuner and going out by 5-clicks at a time, instead of the recommended 25-clicks.

good luck,

Lee
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:27 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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TDS version?

Tony, I forgot to ask which software program are you using? is it the version that cost $35


Thanks,
Lee
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:03 PM
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Lee,


Not Tony, but


It is OnTarget TDS which costs $34.99.
If you don't have it, get it. I've been using it for years, it's great.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:20 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill40718 View Post
Lee,


Not Tony, but


It is OnTarget TDS which costs $34.99.
If you don't have it, get it. I've been using it for years, it's great.
Hey Bill,

I have the Precision Calculator only, so need to get the TDS version. got some experiments going on with shorter barrels (pistols) .920 barrels. initial test seems less than a 4-oz tuner is needed.
IMO a 10/22 would need a tuner less than 3.5 oz. imagine what you are seeing and being able to run a row in under a minute, if conditions allow

Lee
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:40 PM
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With on target do you have to use their target design or can you use your own targets?
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