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Old 06-03-2010, 01:29 AM
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Another Challenger II dumb question



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Did the CII have a buffer like the CIII and Buckmarks? If not, would it be a good thing to add one? Like the one suggested for the CI . . .

Ed
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2010, 09:23 AM
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I haven't taken my Challenger II apart because it is NIB, but it does have a cast steel frame, so I doubt that it has a buffer. If it doesn't, I would put one in it if it will function with one.
I will check my manual. Also, chim would know because he has one that he shoots.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:57 PM
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The Challenger II does not have a buffer. As M2HB noted it has a steel frame and apparently Browning felt it was a sufficiently robust design.

My Challenger II and Challenger III don't get shot very much. That's not because they're not good pistols. The main reason for buying them was so I'd have a pistol from each generation Browning offered.
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  #4  
Old 06-03-2010, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chim View Post
The Challenger II does not have a buffer. As M2HB noted it has a steel frame and apparently Browning felt it was a sufficiently robust design.

My Challenger II and Challenger III don't get shot very much. That's not because they're not good pistols. The main reason for buying them was so I'd have a pistol from each generation Browning offered.
That is the exact reason I don't shoot my Challenger II. It is part of a collection and I have plenty of original Challengers to shoot. Besides, the Challenger is one of the nicest, all around, 22 pistols out there.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:12 AM
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Well . . .

I sort of, without realizing it, have done what Chim has done. I decided I wanted a collection of Browning 22s. This site has been my guide.

So I now have a Buckmark Challenge, a Buckmark Camper (wife's), a 2004 Buckmark Pro, a Challenger III, Challenger II and a Challenger. They are all great to shoot and I am working through them to make sure they operate the way they should.

The Challenger is great; if I do my part, it does the rest. Just a great experience.

The Challenger II has a few problems, it doesn't like the mag that came with it; a jam-o-matic. It does well with a 3K after market mag and the mag I have for the Challenger II. The last time I took it out it had a lot of misfires (either light strikes or failure to go into full battery). That needs to be addressed.

The Challenger III, didn't have a buffer when I got it (I made one for it) and it does everything a pistol is supposed to do. I need to get the correct buffer for it soon. I just hate the idea of paying more for the shipping than for the buffer.

The Buckmark Pro, with the ambidextrous grips, is a great pistol. One hundred percent. Again, if I do my part, it does the rest. The grips just don't fit my hands the way the others do. I don't know what to do about that yet.

My wife's Buckmark Camper is another one hundred percent. When I can get it away from her it is really fun.

The Buckmark Challenge is great. It is a real light weight. Jumps around like a Colt Cadet, but is a really fun shoot. I think my wife is going to steal it from me. And by the way, the Colt is also a really great fun pistol.

So at this point I think I am really set. For home defense, we have a couple of bigger calibers. For our day to day fun we have the Brownings.

Thanks to this site, and its people, I am set,
Ed
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2010, 06:26 AM
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Welcome to the addiction

I didn't start out with a desire to be into Brownings. As a matter of fact my shooter's box still bears a "Team Ruger" tag. I still have a few Rugers, but rarely shoot them. A number of other pistols that came and went.

My real passion has become the old pistols made in Belguim, particularly the second version of the International Medalist.

Having examples of the Belgian pistols and Buck Marks, the next order of business was to fill the gap with a Challenger II and a Challenger III. It was mostly to satisfy my curiosity of what similarities / differences exist between the different versions of the Browning .22 pistols.
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2010, 09:34 AM
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Chim, does the Challenger III take the same buffer as the early BuckMark. From the comments above, I understand not wanting to pay more for shipping than the part costs. It pays to buy all the parts that you will need including BuckMark buffers, springs, bolts, firing pins, etc from Browning at the same time.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2010, 12:41 PM
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Yes - the black one. The same buffer fits Challenger III and pre-2001 Buck Mark. IN 2001 Browning redesigned the slide and these take a white buffer.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2010, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chim View Post
Yes - the black one. The same buffer fits Challenger III and pre-2001 Buck Mark. IN 2001 Browning redesigned the slide and these take a white buffer.
A person with an extensive Browning 22 pistol collection could buy black buffers for the early BMs and the Challenger IIIs. The white buffers could be purchased for the late model BMs and the Belgium pistols. The "V" shaped BM disconnecter spring will work in all of them. The BM recoil spring will work in the BM and cut down it will work in the Belgium pistols. I'll bet those springs can be adapted to work in the Challenger II and III. In fact they may be the same as the BM spring, but I've never checked.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2010, 04:24 PM
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M2HB,
Ordering a bunch of parts at the sametime sounds like the way to go.

Can anyone verify that the BM recoil springs do or do not fit or can not be modified to fit the Challenger II and or III. It would be great to know.

I think I would change them "just because" in both of those and have a spare for the BMs. I have noticed in both the CII and CIII that their recoil springs have been bent some. After reassembling them I can see how it would happen.

Can someone point me in the right direction to find out if the springs are interchangable or can be modified to fit? Browning??

Thanks, Ed
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  #11  
Old 06-06-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjr4 View Post
M2HB,
Ordering a bunch of parts at the sametime sounds like the way to go.

Can anyone verify that the BM recoil springs do or do not fit or can not be modified to fit the Challenger II and or III. It would be great to know.

I think I would change them "just because" in both of those and have a spare for the BMs. I have noticed in both the CII and CIII that their recoil springs have been bent some. After reassembling them I can see how it would happen.

Can someone point me in the right direction to find out if the springs are interchangable or can be modified to fit? Browning??

Thanks, Ed
Chim may be willing to check his. He is one of our RFC BuckMark experts and he has a Challenger II and III. I have personally cut down the BM recoil springs for my Challengers so I know that works. You just need to know what length to cut them down to. I took the original spring and cut the BM spring longer then tried to assemble it. It wouldn't go, so I trimmed it down until it worked. I just can't remember what length that was. I should have written it down, and I probably did but I can't remember where I put it.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2010, 09:11 PM
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I just checked the recoil springs on my Challenger II (1977) and III (1982). I took a new Buck Mark recoil spring and checked it for fit. It goes into the holes on the slides and fits over the rods. It appears to be pretty the same spring only longer. The Buck Mark spring is about 3/4" longer than the springs in the CII and CIII. The CII & CIII springs bottom out in holes, unlike those on a Buck Mark that run nearly to the breech

In case anyone might care - while the CII and CIII were apart I noticed a difference in the recoil spring guide rods. The rear end of the CII rod has a recess that fits over a peg protruding from the recoil post. No buffer.

The rear end of the CIII rod is very similar to the one found on a Buck Mark. The rod has a reduces diameter end that goes into a hole in the recoil post. Black (Pre-2001 Buck Mark) buffer

Both the CII & CIII rods are much shorter than found on the Buck Mark. The spring is a little difficult to "gather" onto the rod while slipping the slide back on. That explains the kink in a spring on my used CIII when I got it.

Here's a tip for reinstalling a slide on the CII & CIII. Get the slide, recoil spring and rod all in place loosely on the frame. Take a 1/2" wide piece of paper and form it into a loop. Position the paper "U" around the spring/rod with the ends up. Pinch the paper together and use it to control and guide the spring until the slide is back far enough that the rod enters the slide. Slip the paper out and run the slide all the way back and lock it there.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2010, 09:19 PM
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It sounds like a person can just buy BuckMark recoil springs and cut them to fit the Challenger, Challenger II and III. This info will save folks a lot of money.
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:11 PM
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Ed,
Thank you for asking this question and to everyone who participated in this discussion in 2010. Also to RFC for making it possible to find it. It will be 2019 in 3 weeks and here I am reading it and learning. And our Challenger II thanks you for keeping me from bending its recoil spring when I put it back together.
Don
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:27 PM
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Another Way...

I used stiff paper per Chim's suggestion, and then one time had another idea. My wife had some plastic straws for some reason that were smaller in size than the normal soda straw. I cut a piece about an inch long and slipped it over the recoil spring. Then I fed the spring into the recess and with the recoil spring rod continued to compress the spring. The straw kept the spring from bending up or down. Once I had the recoil rod in place, I used an exacto blade to slit the straw and remove it.

I had better luck with that than the piece of folder paper. I am all thumbs anyway, and that was one less thumb to keep track of.

VH
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