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  #16  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:38 PM
tim slater is online now

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PG,

Yes Anschutz had more than one straight (non thumbhole) stock. The rifles shown in the printed adverts are the prone style, usually (but not always) found with a heavy barrel. I've never seen these with any chequering on the fore-end, but then that's not needed. The pressure of the sling and handstop keep the supporting hand in place without finger pressure. The topmost rifles, those in the photos, are the lighter pattern.

As for barrels, the upper two in the chequered stocks, don't look especially heavy to my eye. These are still target barrels, not sporters, but I'm not sure either is the 28in heavy. Those are beasts!

As for taper, either it's a trick of the light or your '62 dated barrel is tapered behind the muzzle. I've yet to see a parallel factory barrel with the integral foresight mount. Every 14xx parallel barrel I've seen has a screw-on foresight block, just like the' 64 barrel (the stock is older).

Last edited by tim slater; 11-30-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:21 PM
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Based only on my memory of a rifle I sold in 2018, I'd wager that the barrel was not tapered. No matter, as I can no longer measure it. Anyway, what follows is some theorizing about tapered and straight barrels on earlier Anschutz Model 54 rifles. It could be wrong but here are some observations.

What is true of the rifle I sold last year is that it has two barrel retention pins and no grooves for a sighting system on the top side of the barrel. It has a foresight mount.

There are a few variations with barrels on the older Model 54 rifles, regardless of its stock configuration.

As many readers will know, the heavier barrel models don't have what Anschutz calls an "intermediate ring" which is used on the slimmer barreled models. None of the rifles I showed in my previous posts, except for the 1408, have this ring. Whether Anschutz made a model with a slimmer barrel and did not use the ring is unclear.

Some barrels have barrel grooves -- presumably for sighting systems that don't use the dovetail grooves on the rear half of the receiver. I'm guessing that these barrels are older than those without the grooves. Perhaps these grooved barrels are used only on 54 receivers with one horizontal barrel retention pin. Furthermore, perhaps these grooved barrels are the barrels that are tapered.

Below is an older Model 54, serial number 02350. It must be very early in the production of the Model 54. It has a grooved barrel and one pin.



The following rifle is serial number 04252 and it has a grooved barrel and one pin. It also has no intermediate ring and has the stock configuration shown in the OP.




Not all one pin receivers, however, have grooved barrels. Here's one that's a little newer than the one above. Its serial number is 07592. It has the stock configuration that is very similar to the 1964 Model 1411 shown in an earlier post.





It can be very hard to determine conclusively that a barrel is tapered by a picture of the barrel alone. What is different between barrels with and without sight-related grooves on the top, is the mounting fixture, the foresight mount, on the end of the barrel.

Below is the barrel for the first rifle shown in this post, the one with a grooved barrel and serial number 02350. Note the height of the foresight mount.



Here (below) is the barrel for the second rifle shown in this post, also with a grooved barrel, serial number 04252. Note the height of the foresight mount.



Unfortunately there is no picture available of the barrel on the rifle with serial number 07592, the one that had no barrel grooves.

Below is a picture of the 1962-made Model 54, which was shown earlier. Keep in mind that the stock is a mismatched 1973ish stock. Note the height of the foresight mount.



If anyone has followed this far, the question may be why have all these rifles and barrels been shown. Note the height of the foresight mount on the rifles with grooved barrels (grooves on the top for mounting a sighting system). That foresight mount would appear to be noticeably higher than the one on the 1962 barrel. This is the barrel I believed to be straight, not tapered. A non-tapered barrel would not require as high a foresight mount as one that was tapered.

By 1964, the foresight mounting system had been changed all together as is shown below in this 1411 with the correct stock.



What does all this mean? It is possible that straight, non-tapered barrels were used before 1963. The difference in height of the foresight mount can determine whether a barrel was tapered or straight. Furthermore it is possible that only barrels that had grooves for a sighting system on the top side were tapered barrels.

Last edited by Penage Guy; 11-30-2019 at 07:23 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2019, 09:42 PM
STRUGL4X'SC

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Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
Perhaps not all heavy barreled rifles before 1963 were tapered. I had a 1962 barreled action with a heavy barrel that was not tapered. Here it is in a 1973ish stock.



The one in this picture is tapered

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  #19  
Old 11-30-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by STRUGL4X'SC View Post
The one in this picture is tapered
Why do you come to that conclusion?
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2019, 09:57 PM
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Guess I can't be absolutely positive, but the human eye can see a difference in diameter between the chamber end, and just behind where the front sight mounts.

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  #21  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:36 PM
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The foresight mount is not as high on the 1962-made Model 54 as it is on the other earlier made rifles shown. It is not as high because the barrel has a wider diameter than those others. Slimmer muzzles require a foresight mount that is higher than a muzzle that has a wider diameter. Please see the explanation and pictures offered above in post #17.

If it adds anything, my distinct recollection of that 1962 rifle was that the barrel was not tapered. I still have the 1973-made 1411 that I had to compare the 1962 model with. It goes without saying that the seventies model has a straight, non-tapered barrel. If that '62 rifle barrel was tapered, then it completely eluded my notice when I compared both rifles.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:31 PM
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I have a 1962 1413 as well with a very heavy barrel, you almost have to measure it to notice the taper. Here is a picture of the barrel channel on the one I originally posted.

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  #23  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:51 PM
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Measured my 1413 from 1962: .869 by the front sight boss,1.062 at the action.

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  #24  
Old 12-01-2019, 01:58 AM
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PG,

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your conclusions about barrel taper. I think you're overthinking it.

Firstly Match 54 barrels were tapered until 1964, maybe 1963, I don't recall exactly. Both heavy and light barrels were tapered. I can only guess at why they changed, but ease of manufacture may well be one reason. The tapered barrels have a machined-in dovetailed ramp for the foresight. Parallel barrels have a screwed on dovetail block. I've not seen a tapered barrel with a factory screw-on block, or vice versa.

The tapered light barrels do not have the intermediate ring, most probably because these are thicker at the receiver and the ring isn't needed. The extra metal probably gives enough seating shoulder area in a lightweight. Heavy tapered barrels are noticeably thicker than heavy parallel.

Secondly foresight height is governed by the height above the bore needed for comfortable shooting, and a mechanical zero in the rearsight. It's possible that Anschutz decided to lower the foresight slightly when they switched to straight cylindrical barrels in 1963/4, but not by much. I think the taper makes the foresight look higher above the bore than it really is. The foresight mounts on the parallel barrels look lower, because the barrel is thicker immediately behind the foresight. Put a taller foresight tunnel (like a 1900 or a 22mm) on a parallel barrel, and a factory rearsight often runs out of elevation when zeroing at 100. To me that suggests there was not a great difference in foresight height across 1400 (and 1600/1800) barrels.

I also disagree that one can't distinguish tapered and parallel barrels reliably. I can be difficult, but not that hard with practise. I agree with STRUGL4X'SC, the 1962 barrel gets visibly slimmer towards the muzzle. Some tapers are very slight, but these are not. In the same way, the lighter barrels are visibly distinguishable when placed in a stock from heavies.

The grooves on the lighter tapered barrels up by the receiver are for mounting a tangent sight. Germany had a Service style 0.22 shooting discipline before the war, and I suspect these lighter rifles represent a continuation of this tradition, or a crossover to conventional 3-P/Prone shooting. I've not seen a heavy tapered barrel or any Anschutz parallel barrel, light or heavy, with provision for a tangent sight. I don't know why, but I think it's likely to represent a recognition that fashion had changed, or a change in competition rules. You may be right that only the single-pin actions/barrels have these grooves, but I just don't know.

Last edited by tim slater; 12-01-2019 at 09:36 AM.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2019, 06:39 AM
Andyd
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Since the match rifles with the tapered barrel and the milled front sight mount, as well as the non-tapered barrel could used the 6700 and 6702 match sight, we can be sure that the front sight mount made up for the difference in height in between the receiver rail mounted rear sight and the front sight.

After WWII Germany had rekindled the Deutschen Schuetzenbund in 1951 and UIT rules were starting to govern the shooting sport in Germany. When the UIT rail, also known as Anschutz rail, was started being used and the old keyhole accessory rail was phased out, the rails on the grooves to mount an open rear sight on the barrel was also phased out. As Tim wrote, the change in the rules brought also a change in the sighting options.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
Why do you come to that conclusion?
Regardless of how he came to his conclusion, I believe he is right.

I have seen plenty of Anschutz barrels of that configuration, and they were all tapered.
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:34 PM
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Wow, wasn't trying to stir up any controversy over these great rifles. They are fascinating and I very much enjoy the opinions of the people on this site. Most have a target rifle for shooting, and collect something else, I am intrigued by target rifles from the past 100 years or so. I have gathered specimens of many, but many are not in pristine condition. I shoot as many as I can, as much as I can.

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  #28  
Old 12-01-2019, 01:25 PM
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Regardless of how he came to his conclusion, I believe he is right.

I have seen plenty of Anschutz barrels of that configuration, and they were all tapered.
I think we should stay open to discussion and if we have a point, or think that we do, explain how we came to that conclusion. Regardless of what we believe, this is not about religion. besides that, I also think that the barrel is tapered and tried to explain why.
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2019, 01:50 PM
Sandy22
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I think we should stay open to discussion and if we have a point, or think that we do, explain how we came to that conclusion. Regardless of what we believe, this is not about religion. besides that, I also think that the barrel is tapered and tried to explain why.
Amen, brother(/sister).
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2019, 04:10 PM
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Tim, and everyone else, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Apparently I was wrong and likely overthought things as suggested. It won't come as a surprise to me if I continue to be wrong. Unfortunately when it comes to things Anschutz, there is no textbook, and the good folks posting here are as close as we can get to definitive information.

The following is a summary of some of the key points of what Tim wrote:

All barrels on Anschutz Model 54 Match rifles, whether heavy or light, were tapered before 1964 or 1963. Models with light barrels did not have an intermediate ring because the barrels had a relatively large diameter where they met the receiver. Furthermore, Anschutz tapered barrels are easily or reliably distinguishable from straight barrels because the taper is not slight. The foresight height may have been lowered when the switch was made to straight barrels in 1963/64, but not by much. In any case, foresight mounts on the parallel barrels look lower, because the barrel is thicker immediately behind the foresight. Heavy barreled Model 54 rifles did not have grooves for tangent sights; the grooves were only on light barreled models.

That all sounds reasonable to me. What remains uncertain is the last year that tapered barrels were put on Model 54 Match rifles.

It would appear that the date for straight barrels might be 1963.

Below is the OP's 1963 barreled action, with what appears to be a straight, non-tapered barrel. Is it straight or easily identified as tapered?



Furthermore, the OP's barrel seems to be slimmer at the receiver than older light barreled Model 54 rifles. If it didn't have an intermediate ring, it looks like it could use one.



The earlier light barrels, the ones with grooves for tangent sights, certainly had no need for intermediate rings as the height difference between barrel and receiver was not much different than it was for the heavy barrel rifles of the late 1950s and early 1960s and those of more recent years.



Regarding tapers and recognizing them, I must confess that I find the taper on the lighter barrels easier to recognize. For example, this barrel, on a very early rifle and grooved for tangent sights, seems like it has a straightforward-to-spot taper.



In any case, sometimes it is hard to interpret pictures as they really are and it can be foolhardy to rely on memory to be as reliable as believed. There's a lesson in there for me and I thank everyone for their patience and indulgence. With my shooting season now undeniably over, I can see I may have too much time on my hands for a while.
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