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Old 11-26-2019, 12:31 AM
Anschutz458

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Help with group size.



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I’m being told that anschutz shoots a 10 shot group? I read that on here. Maybe it’s 5. I just can’t remember. A dime is .705 in diameter. The dime does cover up the group. So would this be a .705 inch group? This is the diameter of a dime or 17.91 mm. There seems to be discrepancies on how groups are measured. Also does the number of shots have anything to do with it? A 10 shot group in theory shouldn’t be tighter than a three shot group. Is there a consensus ? Sorry for the large photos. I don’t know what happen with this
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:33 AM
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Usually groups are measured from center to center of the widest two holes at 50yrds for a .22. 5 shot groups are normal. Anschutz does it a little differently, and so does the Lapua testing center. Not sure if this helped you, but you will have fun doing your own shooting. Some things that help are too many to go into, but a little reading is in order.

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Old 11-26-2019, 02:00 AM
Anschutz458

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OK well this is the test target from the 1712. Yes it appears to shoot really well. It just looks like these shots are stringing a little bit. Didnít know if this was the norm for this rifle. Seems to prefer the RWS-50. Have shot the Lupa midest + as well as Eley S. I just hear about people shooting these quarter-inch and better groups at 50 yards on here. This appears to be a little larger than that.
Anyway thank you for taking the time to respond.
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:21 AM
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Groups are measured C-T-C, measure the outside diameter at largest point, subtract bullet diameter. The group pictured is roughly a half inch. Quarter inch groups at 50 yards are easy to shoot with a keyboard! Get out the rifle, ammo, and calipers and you won't find many.
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:45 AM
Rick H.
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Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
Groups are measured C-T-C, measure the outside diameter at largest point, subtract bullet diameter. The group pictured is roughly a half inch. Quarter inch groups at 50 yards are easy to shoot with a keyboard! Get out the rifle, ammo, and calipers and you won't find many.
Not only funny, but absolutely true. Many years ago I built up a 1903 Springfield into a Vintage Sniper Match rifle for CMP games. I took it to our local range and was pondering installing a new barrel on it. One of my shooting buds was with me and we were talking about the rifle in general and I mentioned putting a new barrel on it. I then proceeded to shoot an honest-to-goodness 3 shot 3/8ths inch group with the rifle at 200 yards and almost fell out of my shooting chair when I looked at the target. While the rifle certainly shoots good for what it is, I don't run my mouth off about it doing that well on a constant basis. In fact it was a one time group that I have never been able to replicate since. In my estimation it was pure luck, but I don't talk about it much if at all, except my shooting buddy keeps asking me if I put a new barrel on the rifle yet and he would be happy to take it off my hands. All good fun. Saying a rifle will do something consistently is one thing, but actually doing it is quite another.

Rick H.
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Anschutz458 View Post
I’m being told that anschutz shoots a 10 shot group? I read that on here. Maybe it’s 5. I just can’t remember. A dime is .705 in diameter. The dime does cover up the group. So would this be a .705 inch group? This is the diameter of a dime or 17.91 mm. There seems to be discrepancies on how groups are measured. Also does the number of shots have anything to do with it? A 10 shot group in theory shouldn’t be tighter than a three shot group. Is there a consensus ? Sorry for the large photos. I don’t know what happen with this
With rifles in .22LR, Anschutz shoots ten shot groups in a tunnel with the barreled action in a vise. According to information in an Anschutz-produced video, the standard that must be met is 18mm (outside-to-outside measurement). That's 0.709". If the standard is not met, the rifle goes back for work. Most shooters in North America use a center-to-center measurement. The specific ammo used is unclear; perhaps it is not always the same make and variety. In any case, however, it is match quality ammo.

Below is an image from the Anschutz testing facility.



Ten shot groups are invariably larger on average than five shot groups, which in turn are larger than three shot groups. How much larger is a ten shot group than a five shot group? This was the subject of some debate on this forum, with some saying that there is no mathematical relationship between the number of shots and group size. Nevertheless, when enough groups are shot and compared, statistically the ten shot group will be on average somewhere between 24 and 31% larger. (See, for example, https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...9&postcount=24 and https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...3&postcount=83 )

Of course this does not and cannot mean that every time a ten shot group is compared with a five shot group that the former will be between 24 and 31% larger; instead it is the average obtained when enough groups are compared. Some ten shot groups may be very small, while some five shot groups may be large. On average, however, ten shot groups are larger than five shot groups.
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:32 PM
Empe
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Originally Posted by Anschutz458 View Post
OK well this is the test target from the 1712. Yes it appears to shoot really well. It just looks like these shots are stringing a little bit. Didnít know if this was the norm for this rifle. Seems to prefer the RWS-50. Have shot the Lupa midest + as well as Eley S. I just hear about people shooting these quarter-inch and better groups at 50 yards on here. This appears to be a little larger than that.
Anyway thank you for taking the time to respond.
Groups of 1/4" & better ? One thing I've learned here on RFC over the years is to take accuracy claims with a grain of salt . Depending on who is making the claim several grains may be required.
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:56 AM
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Groups of 1/4" & better ? One thing I've learned here on RFC over the years is to take accuracy claims with a grain of salt . Depending on who is making the claim several grains may be required.

OK then it was a 10 shot group. Makes me feel a little better. Maybe with different ammo they wouldíve gotten a tighter group? Pretty new to the world of 22s. Or rather a resurgence. Been 27 years I believe since I picked one up. Itís been shotguns and centerfires. About a month ago I picked up a buddy of mineís at our property that he brought out to play with. I couldnít get enough of it. He shot a coyote at just under 50 yards suppressed with sub sonic RWS ammo. To say I was hooked would be an understatement. I havenít stopped talking about it. I was backing him up with a Grendel,when he said youíre not going to need to shoot. He dropped it right in its tracks about an eighth of an inch below the ear. The rifle he was using was a Zepher ll. That rifle shot really well. I made the mistake of going online and reading about the Anschutz. He got a kick out of it and said Ējust get it or your going to regret itĒ. Well believe it or not it did out shoot his last week. To the point where he was shocked. Itís the only target Iíve ever cut out and laminated in 30 years of shooting. Once again thanks guys for the education. Iíve learned more than I would of believed on this site
Going to shoot it Thursday with a dead air mask suppressor that I just got for it. Hope it shoots as good. Anyway thanks guys I appreciate the education
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
Groups are measured C-T-C, measure the outside diameter at largest point, subtract bullet diameter. The group pictured is roughly a half inch. Quarter inch groups at 50 yards are easy to shoot with a keyboard! Get out the rifle, ammo, and calipers and you won't find many.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:27 AM
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Rick

At our little range we call that a "random act of accuracy" When I get a ridiculously good group going I immediately stop shooting and save that target. It's always a grin to look at and handy to have when that rifle goes up for sale.
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:59 AM
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OK then it was a 10 shot group. Makes me feel a little better. Maybe with different ammo they would’ve gotten a tighter group? Pretty new to the world of 22s. Or rather a resurgence. Been 27 years I believe since I picked one up. It’s been shotguns and centerfires. About a month ago I picked up a buddy of mine’s at our property that he brought out to play with. I couldn’t get enough of it. He shot a coyote at just under 50 yards suppressed with sub sonic RWS ammo. To say I was hooked would be an understatement. I haven’t stopped talking about it. I was backing him up with a Grendel,when he said you’re not going to need to shoot. He dropped it right in its tracks about an eighth of an inch below the ear. The rifle he was using was a Zepher ll. That rifle shot really well. I made the mistake of going online and reading about the Anschutz. He got a kick out of it and said ”just get it or your going to regret it”. Well believe it or not it did out shoot his last week. To the point where he was shocked. It’s the only target I’ve ever cut out and laminated in 30 years of shooting. Once again thanks guys for the education. I’ve learned more than I would of believed on this site
Going to shoot it Thursday with a dead air mask suppressor that I just got for it. Hope it shoots as good. Anyway thanks guys I appreciate the education
Most certainly find ammo it likes it will shoot better. IMO and experience, ammo, barrel and chamber are 3 main ingredients needed for a good recipe to get better accuracy

Lee
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:21 PM
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What kind of groups does that keyboard shoot, I bet it one holes all day and night and even when your sleeping
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