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Old 05-12-2019, 10:57 PM
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A Change With Good Results



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I don't shoot competitively on the bench and so it's pretty typical for me to shoot the same way I hunt, that means grip and trigger squeeze etc. I was chatting was somebody on RFC and they mentioned that they just pinch the trigger and barely touch the stock kind of like the free recoil guys do. As I was shooting today with one of my squirrel rifles I pretty much did the same old thing since it really doesn't sit in the rest the greatest but I made a switch when I was shooting my M12. I decided to try to not touch the stock much with my cheek and I pinched the trigger with my thumb on the back of the wrist and touched the trigger with my pad of my finger and very little else with my hand. I've never done this before and wow, what a difference.

I have never shot with competitive shooters so don't know all the tricks, this is I'm sure a simple thing for many of you but I never do it so it is a struggle to get consistent groups for me. I think with some more practice I can get very consistent. Excuse the targets as I was shooting one of my squirrel rifles as well but on the 50yd target the 4 groups were shot with Eley Edge, not a high dollar ammo but not low budget either. For not having practiced this before I woukd say for me I had good results. I only had time to shoot 2 groups this way at 100yds and that is the best I have ever done with one 5 shot group just over and one just under 1/2". I bought this H&R just to give it a try but I may just have to keep it.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to help further improve my bench technique? I'm actually going to change my front bag to fit just a little better and I am also going to make a mechanical rear rest this week. I'm pretty excited with good temps coming and better shooting weather. I may even go to some matches if I can find some just to watch technique and talk with some shooters. An Anschutz is on my bucket list to Buy this summer hut I really don't know that I can shoot it much better than this one with more practice.

By the way these groups are center to center using .203 as the hole size as that's what this paper was consistent at. I wish I had more time as I would have liked to shoot a half dozen groups at 100yds to see if I could keep them around that 1/2" area.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:05 AM
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Looks like you doing well, the only other suggestion I would make, is to get a set of very high rings, ( see through rings work really well ) this will allow you to be more comfortable, while having your cheek away from the stock. I pinch my trigger as well, I put my thumb behind the trigger guard and apply a little forward pressure. I shoot Win 52's so the trigger is about like your M12 ( which I have had a couple of) I just give it a slow steady squeeze while keeping the POA steady.

Keep up with the great shooting, try some high end ammo, Lapua Center-X always worked the best in my M-12's and keep us posted.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:26 AM
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Good shooting Glenn. You are discussing a subject that is near and dear to my heart....taking the old factory guns and wringing the last bit of accuracy from them....without replacing the barrel, trigger, etc.

one area that I have really focused on is rest equipment and setup. I'm sure you've run across my posts about modifications to the Bald Eagle front rest and my home built rear roller rest. In addition to testing for good ammo and properly bedding the stock to the action, coming up with the right rest setup has been a major contributor to improved consistency in shooting for accuracy and consistent bullet placement. With factory guns, little things can make a big difference. Since most of these guns cannot be shot total free recoil due to the factory trigger, I shoot with as little contact with the gun as possible...and that includes my light sporters also. If my cheek or shoulder contacts the stock at all it is very lightly, I basically use my thumb hooked over the top of the pistol grip with a finger behind the back of the bottom of the pistol grip and the trigger finger on the trigger. Just enough pressure and contact to keep things steady and pull the trigger.

A few days, ago the I decided to drag out a 52 D that my son shoots at our club matches. Last outing he complained about the gun not shooting as well as usual, so I thought I would take a look. Using a proven lot of Midas +, I shot a few rounds, and sure enough, it seemed a bit erratic. These guns have the factory bedding screws in the forearm, so on a hunch, I checked to ensure they were backed out giving plenty of clearance. It turned out they were within the thickness of sheet of paper from touching the barrel. Since i have had good luck with them making about four clicks worth of contact, I set them to that and fired the first row of three shot groups pictured below. First shot was a flyer to the left but settled in after that. The next row, I backed the screws way out to remove the possibility of barrel contact or interference and shot the second row. I've had good luck shooting either way, but prefer total barrel clearance since it is easier simpler. Shot on modified Bald Eagle and roller rear rest. Bottom right shots were seasoning shots with some poor shooting Eley.

As I said, I use these techniques on all my factory guns. I shoot a factory 52E at our matches and so far this year, the gun is averaging 249-16X on the IR 50 target that we shoot. Not too bad for a factory gun I'm thinking perhaps.

James


Last edited by pump .22s; 05-13-2019 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:22 AM
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52 & Pumps, thanks for the encouragement and words of wisdom. I really like these old rifles as well and even though I don't shoot competitively I still like my rifles to shoot as well as possible and that includes my sporters. I have always tried to keep my scopes as low as possible but I guess when it comes to a target rifle that idea needs to go out the window, it's just habit. Another thing I need to do is bring the scope back a little bit and it will be easier.

I have to get on building my rest like yours pumps so I can see how that helps. I really with our range was flat but it has about a 7 decline I'm guessing and so it makes it so the rear rest has to be a lot higher and the butt sits in your shoulder differently but shooting closer to a free recoil style should help to eliminate some of the issues I'm guessing.

Thanks again guys.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:36 AM
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Just looking at your setup, consider that everything in your shooting system from the bench to the crown can make a difference. Your bench appears to have a thin part where your rear bag is sitting. Just your movement or pressure can make a bench flex and change your impact.
Consider a rear bag with a thick, flat rigid base that won't rock or move during recoil.
Your front rest is at an angle to your stock pinching at different locations on the sides of the stock.
Consider adding a 3 inch wide flat plate to your accessory rail to keep your stock from rocking side to side in the front rest. A level on your scope can help assure your rifle is not canted.
The more advanced you get, the more all the little things matter.
Your off to a great start, good shooting.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:28 AM
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Glen H, the shooting benches at our club are rock solid, built by a member that owns a weld/fabrication shop. Seats swing to either side and adjust for height, very nice.
As I said our shooting lanes are at a roughly 7 or 8 decline so I'm wondering if I should make a plate that counters that to attach to the rail? Another thing is I have never worked on the bedding on this rifle, I may go ahead and piller/bed it. I've always kind of planned on shooting it for a little while then moving on to another. I know of an Anschutz 54 bench gun that I'm kind of interested in. Thing about that is I don't think I'm shooting even close to what this gun is capable of yet so why move on until I get my system right first? It's just kind of a bucket list thing for my to try a lot of different rifles and I can't afford to keep them all.
Thanks again for the advice.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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Glen H, the shooting benches at our club are rock solid, built by a member that owns a weld/fabrication shop. Seats swing to either side and adjust for height, very nice.
As I said our shooting lanes are at a roughly 7 or 8 decline so I'm wondering if I should make a plate that counters that to attach to the rail? Another thing is I have never worked on the bedding on this rifle, I may go ahead and piller/bed it. I've always kind of planned on shooting it for a little while then moving on to another. I know of an Anschutz 54 bench gun that I'm kind of interested in. Thing about that is I don't think I'm shooting even close to what this gun is capable of yet so why move on until I get my system right first? It's just kind of a bucket list thing for my to try a lot of different rifles and I can't afford to keep them all.
Thanks again for the advice.

I'm the kind that if a gun is showing potential, then I am going to bed it, because I don't want to always wonder if it might have shot better had I bedded it. And in guns like we are talking about, a good bedding job generally is not going to hurt value or the accuracy and may improve it.



For a time I used a rest plate on the bottom of the forearm of my 52E, but that was when I had a tuner on it and was shooting in unlimted class. Since that is not allowed in factory class, I hit on the idea of attaching a flat "Delrin" type plate on the top of the bottom plate of the Bald Eagle rest and then put a narrow radiused strip across the center from side to side for the forearm to rest on. I made it narrow and radiused so that when the elevation was changed while shooting a match target, the strip acted a as a narrow fulcrum so there was a minimal effect on changing the contact point fore and aft on the stock. I also attached narrow radiused strips vertically - one attached to each side plate. I then snug these up enough to support the gun but allow interference free recoil. As I said, this works for me and may not be everyone's cup of tea.



Good luck Glenn.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:55 PM
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Glenn
Just to give you an Idea of the front plate we are talking about.
I made these from aluminum, delrin, and a kmart cutting board.
Glen
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:18 AM
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Well I went out yesterday and used my "Prototype" rear rest with good results. I think I will make an insert for my front rest with a half round piece of delrin or poly and a bottom plate for my stock as you have shown. Hopefully the round top incert will allow it to pivot to compensate for the range lane decline.

Here is my rear rest, worked well but I have some changes to make. I think it needs to be about 2 inches wider and heavier. With this front rest it should be a little lower but I do have another rest that it will work fine with at this height. I will also make it triangular, I just left it square since I figured it would get changed. Once I figure it all out I am going to make the bottom out of aluminum and adjusting knobs out of aluminum or brass. Of course I will have to polish it all so it is perty. Lol Any suggestions would be apreciated.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:53 PM
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Well I went out yesterday and used my "Prototype" rear rest with good results. I think I will make an insert for my front rest with a half round piece of delrin or poly and a bottom plate for my stock as you have shown. Hopefully the round top incert will allow it to pivot to compensate for the range lane decline.

Here is my rear rest, worked well but I have some changes to make. I think it needs to be about 2 inches wider and heavier. With this front rest it should be a little lower but I do have another rest that it will work fine with at this height. I will also make it triangular, I just left it square since I figured it would get changed. Once I figure it all out I am going to make the bottom out of aluminum and adjusting knobs out of aluminum or brass. Of course I will have to polish it all so it is perty. Lol Any suggestions would be apreciated.
Nice job Glen, if you want more weight you can use 5lb weights from Wal-mart not real expensive. the ones you use weight lifting. I used them on my front rest when I shot with a 2-piece setup
I placed them over the front adjusters. you could use them for your base and mount the feet and roller top

Lee


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