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Anschutz 10 shot groups at 100 and ammo variation

4K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  Hi-NV Shooter 
#1 ·
After finding I can't seem to get ammo consistent enough to achieve my goals for shooting at 50 yards, I recently began to shoot at 100 yards with my Anschutz 1913 BR 50. (At my club range, which I usually have to myself, the "50 yards" measures closer to 57.4 to the outside wall of the building, while the 100 is nearer to 98.7.)



I was uncertain about the results I would see. The most consistent shooting ammo I have is a lot of Center X that I last bought, a 2020 vintage. It's not good enough to shoot consistent sub-.25" five-shot groups at my club's 50 yard distance. At 100 yards I found that I could shoot three ten-shot groups that averaged under one inch. I was pleased with it's 100 yard performance.

Below is the best overall results with this lot of CX. All groups were very nearly the same size.



The largest group above measured 1.046" outside edge-to-outside edge.

At 50, my best lot of 2020-produced Midas + gives a number of .1's and 2's, but there were always spoilers in other groups. At 100 it was equally mercurial, giving some really nice groups but others that didn't shine, and often were larger than the usual groups I was getting with the CX referred to above. While it produced some three ten-shot groups that were consistent with one another, others showed more fully the very good and the typical characteristics of this particular lot of ammo.



This lot seems to have some very consistent rounds, with some of the groups showing relatively small groups with what at first glance appear to be errant shots or fliers but are really nothing more than rounds that are striking within the overall group size if all 50 rounds in a box were shot in a single group.

But sometimes a few groups seem to stand out, when ten consecutive rounds are very consistent indeed.

The ten-shot group targets below were shot on Aug. 11 this week in calm conditions. The distance was measured to approximately 98.7 yards.



The top right group on the target on the left above and the bottom left target on the target on the right are examples of ten consecutive rounds doing very well.



What takeaways from this? Ammo can seem to be very fickle. But a lot that can give only some very good results isn't sufficiently consistent to deliver regularly. A consistently shooting lot seems more desirable than one that delivers some impressive results from time to time.

When I bought the ammo that produced the results shown above, the dealer had new to his inventory some five lots of Center X and two of the Midas +. I suspect that these numbers are not atypical for dealers in a country with a very small market (to put it in perspective, California has a larger population than all of Canada). I tested in late October/early November last year when conditions were cold and less than ideal. With a small number of lots from which to choose from it's unlikely that there are very many "killer" lots that will shoot "lights out".

Even it it doesn't produce the smallest groups, I wish I had bought more of the lot of CX that delivers consistent result. But it is nice to see the very nice results that the M+ can produce -- even if they are only on occasion.
 
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#2 ·
Nicely done. A good rifle and a good lot of ammunition.... If I find a really good lot for a particular rifle I try to buy a couple of cases. Way overkill for my actual needs but it's nice to be able to grab a box for your rifle that you know is going to shoot close to the optimal rather than just have a "brand' and hoping it is good with your rifle.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for putting up your ammo test for us and nice shooting. Regarding your thoughts on having a consistent ammo over one that produces some really nice small groups and then unpredictably opens up on the next - I've been thinking along the same lines recently.

We usually shoot competitions at 50m and 100m. The 10 ring on the 100m target is 33mm in diameter. We shoot 10 rounds at 4 targets for a total of 40 competitive shots. Looking at my competition targets, a nice tight group of 8 or 9 shots reasonably close to the centre X-ring may look nice but those one or two shots out in the 9 ring are what kill you. Ten shots barely in the 10 ring and not looking particularly pretty beat nine shots dead centre and one in the 9 ring.

Usually when I try out a box of ammo I look at what shoots nice small groups but in future I think I'll try a different, less subjective approach. I'll shoot for score and evaluate the numbers rather than on group size and work off "ugly 10s are better than pretty 9s" :)
 
#4 ·
You always want consistency when it comes to shooting. be it ammo, rest set up, hold, whatever.

I rather have a lot that will shoot say consistent .250-.300 then one that will shoot say .100 for every 2-3 groups out of 10 shot with the remaining grouping anywhere from.150-.500 you will never know where your next shot will go

Lee
 
#5 ·
That's one of the reasons I use two shot groups to test ammo. Every shot counts. The other approach is to use Average to Center. Unfortunately neither method weeds out those **** fliers. A lot of what I call fliers are what are called droppers or low on the target. I know a lot of hard core benchrest shooters that test by shooting for score so that method also has to work. In the end, most of us don't shoot enough of a test lot to find out about that 1 or 2 in a hundred that are real fliers and are they in the two boxes you just bought.
 
#15 ·
I've not been active in recent years here on RFC. I wondered where you learned about the two shot group shooting for evaluating ammo. I've used it too, and it is a shame more people don't know about it and use it. Especially so with rimfire ammo.

Not something I figured out myself. Learned about it over at the old accuratereloading forums from a poster there named Brent. Just wondering if you are Brent or just read his method on some other forums.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for sharing the information, MKnarr.

Of the two lots of Center X that I bought last, one produces the most consistent results at 100. At that distance, the best lot of Midas that I have can produce outstanding results at times -- such as when there are ten consecutive consistent rounds as they come out of the box. Unfortunately, it's impossible to count on 25 or more consecutive consistent rounds.

This has been true of every lot of Midas I've had over the last few years. I don't say this as criticism of Midas, but rather that finding the lots that are really consistent is not easy in a small match ammo market such as Canada. When I last bought Midas, the dealer's then-latest shipment had just arrived and he only had two lots. He received five new lots of Center X, and one of them was the one that has given the most consistent results at 100. Unfortunately, it doesn't produce exceptional results at half the distance. They're consistent, but not especially good.

I'm thinking there may be three broad categories of match .22LR ammo that make it to Canadian dealers, who serve a relatively small number of .22LR shooters.

First is the ammo that shoots lights out. It shoots with great consistency from one target to the next. It will shoot well in many barrels. This is the ammo that wins competitions. Not all top tier ammo, regardless of what the variety's name is on the box, is this kind of ammo. Of all the lots of ammo I've shot in the last few years, none fits this category.

Second is the opposite of the first. It's the kind no one likes because it simply doesn't shoot well. It's ammo that for one reason or other is almost always inconsistent. It probably doesn't shoot well in most barrels. I once had some Center X that fit this description. It was not tested before purchase, and the dealer replaced it without question.

The third is the kind that we (in Canada, at least) end up with most often. It can produce some very good results. But it doesn't always do that for us. Sometimes, for one reason or another, it just works as we like and gives us good targets. Other times, however, it is inconsistent. Sometimes only a few rounds are inconsistent, enough to ruin a target. Sometimes a half-box or whole box of this kind of ammo just won't shoot. This is the kind of top tier ammo that seems to be available most often in small market Canada.
 
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#12 ·
I agree completely. At one time when I was testing and buying Eley match I got some test lots from a distributor who I won't name. It arrived on Friday afternoon. I went out and tested those test lots Friday after supper and of the four lots one was the best lot I've ever tested. I called very early Saturday morning to order a case and low and behold I was told that lot is gone and everybody wanted that lot. I called several other distributors and no one had any of that lot or would even admit to ever having any. This was most likely one of those lots that shot the same groups every time.

Just by the three targets I showed, I could expect about 1 in 10 shots may be errant. And you know what, I would get them in the ARA matches and wonder how did that shot end up there and what did I do wrong. The first time I shot that lot of Midas in a local 100 yard group match, you actually shoot two targets as match 1 and match 2. I was up against a berm that went from the firing line to the backstop. No body wanted to shoot against that berm. it turns out depending on the direction and the strength of the wind, it's like a wave with a center where there is no breeze. I shot with two wind flags and the first target turned out to be a record at .429. the second target the wind flags didn't move at all and I fired all five shots in about 90 seconds and it again was a record at .329.

From that point on I elected to shoot against the berm. After I won a bunch of those matches they decided that only the lucky guy who happened to pick 5 good rounds would win so they changed from 100 yards to 50 yard group matches. In reality, the ammo that most of us get will not win a lot of big matches. I suspect the makers know from their testing which lots are outstanding and the mass just makes specs. I would also guess that the distributors know what each lot is like and "sell" accordingly. I would also guess that Canada doesn't get any of the best lots anyway.

I once shot a Ruger match with Tracy and lany Barnes the two American Biathlon twins. (BTW, they could shoot as fast with their practice biathlon rifles as I could with my 10/22 and yes they beat me.) It was at a time when ammo was hard to get around 2012. They had bricks of SK Rifle Match. I got to talking with them and asked where they found ammo. Turns out, they were sponsored by SK and could get all the ammo they wanted. I asked about testing and they said they spend so much time in Europe they test at the factory.

Now think about this, do the Olympic shooters test here or at the factory. The factory knows which 10 lots out of a hundred are outstanding. Guess who gets them. Then the rest of the outstanding lots go to the test centers and the locals know when the new lots come in so the next day they are there testing, testing and there go the other 10 lots out of a hundred. I may sound like sour grapes but the law of averages says if every thing is equal every now and then you ought to get one of those lots. I did but it was only 1 box and it was already gone.
I know exactly how you feel. this lot of CX was shot in a wind from 9-10 o'clock
the far left group was my fouling shots from a clean bore

if I include the fouling group

when I went to buy more, I was told the remaining inventory went to TX. this is the main reason I went to Lapua to test in 2016 because I didn't want to lose out on another good lot.
I know since then Lapua has put out some great lots, even stuff I don't normally shoot performed really good. a random brick of Pistol king shot a 250-21X out of a new rifle and setup.
I can't wait to schedule another test session.

Lee
 
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#21 ·
3 misses in ARA is a 2350. Significant difference there. A 2250 is a good target, 2350 is in the very good realm, 2400 target gets you a Hall of Fame point. If you are shooting at a previous shot I feel you need to take a fairly good piece out of it. Just touching would be a 50 ARA.
 
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