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Old 05-17-2016, 09:33 AM
Doug
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Where to aim on BR target - Dumb Question?



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Why do the official benchrest targets use a sighting square with wide edges instead of using the target ring center for sighting?

With my Weaver T36 "dot" scope it is easier to use the target's bottom center circle than to try to find a precise aiming point in that upper square. If I were using a cross hair scope it might be different. I have my scope adjusted at 50 yards so than my 5 shot group is inside the square, but of course I could put it anywhere. I do not have my point of aim and point of impact in the same place, as after a few shots in the target I've (hopefully!) mangled my point of aim that it would be hard to have a precise aim point.

There must be a good reason for it, right? But I do not complete, so I don't need to be encumbered by many of the BR rules.
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:26 AM
bob finger

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You do not define exactly what target you are shooting at so it is very difficult to asses a solution to your problem.

Me I like using the ARA target, it is shot for score not group, for practice for lots of reasons but one is each bull is contained within a square. That square gives you 4 distinct aiming points per bull, and 8 if you use the center of each line lining up the scope with the line (horizontal or vertical and the center dot) giving 4 x 25 = 100 or 8 x 25 = 200 clear aiming points in addition to the 25 record bulls and the sighter bulls. (you of course would not want to do that in competition). One target can last a looong time saving walks to change targets, waiting for line cold commands etc.

Since you say you shoot groups you do NOT want poi and poa to be equal. If you obliterate your poa with a shot where are you gonna put the scope dot for the next shot?

Responses could be much different if you tell us which specific target you are using. bob
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:04 PM
Doug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob finger View Post
You do not define exactly what target you are shooting at so it is very difficult to asses a solution to your problem.

Me I like using the ARA target, it is shot for score not group, for practice for lots of reasons but one is each bull is contained within a square. That square gives you 4 distinct aiming points per bull, and 8 if you use the center of each line lining up the scope with the line (horizontal or vertical and the center dot) giving 4 x 25 = 100 or 8 x 25 = 200 clear aiming points in addition to the 25 record bulls and the sighter bulls. (you of course would not want to do that in competition). One target can last a looong time saving walks to change targets, waiting for line cold commands etc.

Since you say you shoot groups you do NOT want poi and poa to be equal. If you obliterate your poa with a shot where are you gonna put the scope dot for the next shot?

Responses could be much different if you tell us which specific target you are using. bob

THIS is the target to which I refer in my original post. That's all I've ever used, but I have downloaded one of the ARA targets you mention to see how it works for me. The issue I have with the targets I have been using is the center "O" is a little large at 50 yards for my Weaver T36's dot at 50 yards, so I need to find a target with a smaller center "O".

So I still have my original question about where to aim with the target in my link above.........
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Old 05-17-2016, 04:59 PM
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It sounds like Doug is using a group target (as opposed to a scoring target). The ring is for sighting and the square is where the shots are supposed to group. That is, the rifle is supposed to be set up to shoot high. The reason being, the sighting rings remain intact as shots are fired and is not obliterated by the shots thereby removing the aiming references spots. Sounds like he downloaded a centerfire group target. Rimfire group shooting is dead. I know of no sanctioned matches.

Last edited by 2500X; 05-17-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:49 PM
bob finger

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Doug: The target you linked to is a new one to me. I've never seen one like that before, but I do not shoot groups; either cf or rf so don't be surprised at my ignorance of that target.

Assuming it is showing on my pc screen full size I see your problem. The center ring is way too big for 50 yard rim fire if aiming accuracy is your goal. Were I to shoot it as a practice target I'd set my poa at one of the bottom corners of the box and adjust my poi to print in the center of the box. I would totally ignore the scoring rings....way too big. Hope that helps. bob
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
T


THIS is the target to which I refer in my original post. That's all I've ever used, but I have downloaded one of the ARA targets you mention to see how it works for me. The issue I have with the targets I have been using is the center "O" is a little large at 50 yards for my Weaver T36's dot at 50 yards, so I need to find a target with a smaller center "O".

So I still have my original question about where to aim with the target in my link above.........
Doug,

Go to printtargets.net you can make custom targets with center ring as small as .05mm also they have crosshair lines so even if you shoot out the center you have the vertical and horizontal lines to lineup for the next shot
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:09 PM
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I didn't notice the link before. Yes, that is a group target and yes, you are supposed to aim at the center of the concentric circles and the shots are supposed to go into the square box.
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2016, 07:29 AM
Doug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500X View Post
It sounds like Doug is using a group target (as opposed to a scoring target). The ring is for sighting and the square is where the shots are supposed to group. That is, the rifle is supposed to be set up to shoot high. The reason being, the sighting rings remain intact as shots are fired and is not obliterated by the shots thereby removing the aiming references spots. Sounds like he downloaded a centerfire group target. Rimfire group shooting is dead. I know of no sanctioned matches.
Hey, I have never been one in touch with the rest of the world!

Yes, what you described is what I am doing: POA in the center of the bull, POI in the square. However, most of the targets I see such as mine have the POI near the center of the bull; I obviously don't know where the shooter was aiming, but I'd assume in the square. At the time I was using a book "Ultimate Rifle Accuracy" published in the late 1980s or early 1990s - Those targets were featured, but upon re-reading that book yesterday I saw their POIs was always near the center ring, not the square; the opposite of what I did then and am doing now. I find it much easier for MY shooting of 5 rounds on the small targets, to aim at the center rings, but group in the squares. I could obviously have my scope set to group anywhere, but it's more convenient to have them inside the square.

I starting using these type targets maybe 15 years ago, and I was shooting a CF benchrest rifle then, so I suppose that's why I downloaded that target. I never competed, so never really learned any of the rules. I just keep using it when I switched over to RF. I like that group target, it has 6 individual targets on a sheet, but the "bulleyes" are just a tad big for 50 yards. I was shooting the CF rifles at 100 yards. So I am going to try the ARA a fellow mentioned above, or something like that having a bit smaller center ring than what I now use. I'd guess my current center ring is maybe 10mm or so? I don't have one available to measure today.

BTW, I have been searching in vain for a food rimfire benchrest book; anyone know where I can find one? I'm like to find a good primer on bench technique, reading the wind, etc. The one I have for CF is fine for most of what I need, but it also departs from those things more important to rimfire shooting. Plus that nearly 25 year old book is obviously very dated when it talks about equipment! Holy Cow - probably many reading these aren't that old!

Thanks;as usual RFC is a valuable place of learning for me!
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2016, 07:33 AM
Doug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
Doug,

Go to printtargets.net you can make custom targets with center ring as small as .05mm also they have crosshair lines so even if you shoot out the center you have the vertical and horizontal lines to lineup for the next shot
Thanks, I will check into that when I get home and have a printer. Looks like a very handy link to have.

I appreciate the link.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2016, 01:07 AM
lotsaXs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Hey, I have never been one in touch with the rest of the world!

Yes, what you described is what I am doing: POA in the center of the bull, POI in the square. However, most of the targets I see such as mine have the POI near the center of the bull; I obviously don't know where the shooter was aiming, but I'd assume in the square. At the time I was using a book "Ultimate Rifle Accuracy" published in the late 1980s or early 1990s - Those targets were featured, but upon re-reading that book yesterday I saw their POIs was always near the center ring, not the square; the opposite of what I did then and am doing now. I find it much easier for MY shooting of 5 rounds on the small targets, to aim at the center rings, but group in the squares. I could obviously have my scope set to group anywhere, but it's more convenient to have them inside the square.

I starting using these type targets maybe 15 years ago, and I was shooting a CF benchrest rifle then, so I suppose that's why I downloaded that target. I never competed, so never really learned any of the rules. I just keep using it when I switched over to RF. I like that group target, it has 6 individual targets on a sheet, but the "bulleyes" are just a tad big for 50 yards. I was shooting the CF rifles at 100 yards. So I am going to try the ARA a fellow mentioned above, or something like that having a bit smaller center ring than what I now use. I'd guess my current center ring is maybe 10mm or so? I don't have one available to measure today.

BTW, I have been searching in vain for a food rimfire benchrest book; anyone know where I can find one? I'm like to find a good primer on bench technique, reading the wind, etc. The one I have for CF is fine for most of what I need, but it also departs from those things more important to rimfire shooting. Plus that nearly 25 year old book is obviously very dated when it talks about equipment! Holy Cow - probably many reading these aren't that old!

Thanks;as usual RFC is a valuable place of learning for me!
I always aim at square. Cross hair in corner for consistency. Poi anywhere on target.
Never knew otherwise.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:34 AM
Doug
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Originally Posted by lotsaXs View Post
I always aim at square. Cross hair in corner for consistency. Poi anywhere on target.
Never knew otherwise.
You are probably right, and I am probably not right. I've just always done it the other way, seems much easier with my dot/cross hair sights. I prefer them over the cross hair reticle. I think I started doing this in the 1990s when I was shooting informal (non-competing) center fire benchrest. Seems like the books and magazines I read did the same. Well, whichever for whomever, right?
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:26 AM
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I shoot some centerfire National Benchrest Shooters Association matches using a similar target. The group only has to be within the outer outline of the target, NOT within the square or the center of the concentric rings.

I hold on the 12 o'clock position of the second ring from the center although other use the 6 o'clock position. Remember aim small - shoot small.
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