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  #1  
Old 04-02-2016, 06:21 PM
DWood47
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Accuracy difference after rebarrel?



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I'm just wondering if anyone has documented the difference in accuracy between their factory Anschutz Barrel and an aftermarket barrel. I'm trying to decided how far I want to go with a new rifle and would like to know how much of an improvement a new barrel would be.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:44 PM
elh0102

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What kind of accuracy are you getting now, and what do you want? If your current barrel is not performing as you want, and you know it's not the ammo, then you may need to replace it. But I would have a good rimfire accuracy gunsmith check it out first, just to rule out other potential problems. When it comes to precision accuracy, you spend a lot of money on barrels and ammo, and a lot of time in ammo testing, and you get what you get. I used to use mostly Hart and Schneider barrels when I was doing CF benchrest shooting. Most were at least good, some very good, and a few exceptional.....lot of time, lot of money. I would say a good factory Anschutz barrel is probably going to yield at least 90% of the best accuracy you can obtain. Of course, being 10% short leaves you totally out of the competition if you are doing benchrest, but it's probably within your average shooting error in any other discipline.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:59 PM
Old Man 58
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There are a number of things to be taken into consideration before rebarreling. What rifle are you talking about? What is the rifles intended puropse? Is your rifles barrel currently bedded, pillared? What is it's current accuracy? What kind of accuracy are you expecting to see? Are you looking at this for a certain class of competition? Do you intend on using a tuner? What brand or type of rest equipment are you using? What brand and type of ammo are you using? Each manufactures barrels may produce different accuracy results.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:13 PM
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There are no guarantee that replacing the barrel will make it more accurate. Especially when you already have a good barrel on that Anschutz. You may spend big bucks to put a $350-$400 barrel on your rifle, and it not shoot a bit better than the barrel that came on it. Its just a roll of the dice, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

I know a man who used to be the president of the Ohio Benchrest Shooters Association. Now this is dealing with centerfire, but it all comes out the same. He told me a few years ago, that one of his rifles, he had tried 15 different barrels on to fond one that shot the way he wanted it to. He had several of the barrels he tried in his shop. Another man wanted a barrel for his rifle, so he bought one that this man had that would not shoot for him. The next guy put it on his rifle, chambered it, and it out shot the other guys current gun. So just saying, you just never know. You have a good barrel on that Anschutz. Trying to upgrade is a crap shoot. You may roll the dice once, and come out with a once in a lifetime barrel, or it might end up worse than the factory barrel.

Hard comparing one to another unless you could have Anschutz but another brand of barrel on the rifle for you and chamber it the same as the one you have.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWood47 View Post
I'm just wondering if anyone has documented the difference in accuracy between their factory Anschutz Barrel and an aftermarket barrel. I'm trying to decided how far I want to go with a new rifle and would like to know how much of an improvement a new barrel would be.
When you say a new rifle are you talking brand new or new to you? also what type and brands of ammo have you tired?
If the rifle is brand new I would wait before swapping out barrels. I would also make sure that I found the best ammo this rifle will shoot the best with and go from there.

I know of a shooter who bought a brand new 1907 action and had it tested with what I would call 4th tier ammo and the rifle shot really well for the ammo performance level and it being brand new. (I had the privilege of seeing the test results).

All this goes out the widow if the rifle is used, and you can not verify how it was taken cared of. in this case I would look to have it re-barreled.
I have had several Match 54 and all but 1- was re-barreled and this one was a brand new 1607 action that shot really well and consistent as a BR rifle

My current and only Match 54 (1411) has a Benchmark HV reverse taper barrel, comparing the factory barrel is pointless as it was used and I know it had some pitting but it still could shoot 1/4" or better most times. as for the new BM barrel I couldn't be happier. (I do use a tuner)
One very important thing about getting a barrel put on, choose wisely the gunsmith that will do the work

Last edited by Hi-NV Shooter; 04-02-2016 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:57 PM
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It is more than possible that the gunsmith you choose to do the work will be more important than the type barrel. As Hi NV shooter said be careful about who you let do the work.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:07 AM
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With barrels, "you pays your money and you takes your chances". As others have said some are better than others, but that goes for Anschutz as well as any custom barrel maker. And, it's not just the barrel, chambering and putting a good crown at the right spot are extremely important to accuracy. If anything is bad, the results are not going to be what a BR shooter is looking for. On average, I would bet on a top custom barrel, installed by a top BR gunsmith to perform better than a factory barrel - even Anschutz. To properly evaluate a good barrel/rifle, the ammo has to be known to be a very good lot/performer and the shooter has to know how to read wind flags and figure out the proper holds for conditions. An experienced shooter shooting known great ammo can evaluate a barrel very quickly and determine if it's any good or needs to be rejected. Barrels, as compared to all the other costs of rimfire BR, are cheap. When my rifle needed re-barrelling, I would sometimes go thru several custom barrels until I found a keeper. (A keeper being one capable of winning at the highest levels of this sport.)

ps You also need to know how to tune a rifle and have the skills/knowledge to know when it is tuned.

Last edited by 2500X; 04-03-2016 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:11 AM
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Try some hi-end ammo like RWS, GECO or Lupua! to get a better idea of where your gun is shooting. There are ammo dealers that carry full lines of branded ammo and will split a brick up with different flavors of ammo. Check out gunbot.net see Murphysammo.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:21 AM
Ekspurt1
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Before rebarreling, I would have a competent gunsmith slug the barrel to determine if there is a restriction before the muzzle and, if so, cut the barrel down there and recrown it. That's a lot cheaper than the new barrel route and often yields good results if the restriction is present.

Sometimes just installing a barrel tuner is enough.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:26 AM
watercam
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BBL Replacement

I replaced a perfectly accurate 52C barrel as I did not want to shoot it out (judging by the rounded corners of the lands it was VERY competitive) and ruin the value of the rifle. Replaced it with a well known brand and after a thousand rounds or so it is coming around to what the original barrel was giving me. Not regretting my choice as I still believe my reasons were valid but the new barrel is barely as accurate as the one I took off (which is waiting patiently in the wings waiting for me to come to my senses).
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Old 04-03-2016, 12:21 PM
grover niles

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWood47 View Post
I'm just wondering if anyone has documented the difference in accuracy between their factory Anschutz Barrel and an aftermarket barrel. I'm trying to decided how far I want to go with a new rifle and would like to know how much of an improvement a new barrel would be.
your question is too general and lacking background
if you would like 10 yrs of observation and the same question as your, send me a PM and call me. It would take hrs to adequately answer
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Old 04-03-2016, 03:52 PM
HalfMoA
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Rounded Lands?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by watercam View Post
I replaced a perfectly accurate 52C barrel as I did not want to shoot it out (judging by the rounded corners of the lands it was VERY competitive) and ruin the value of the rifle. Replaced it with a well known brand and after a thousand rounds or so it is coming around to what the original barrel was giving me. Not regretting my choice as I still believe my reasons were valid but the new barrel is barely as accurate as the one I took off (which is waiting patiently in the wings waiting for me to come to my senses).
Off subject a bit, but DWood47 may want to consider closely inspecting the land-edges at the muzzle, if he is, in fact having precision problems with the Anschutz barrel. Everyone should inspect the lands at the muzzle before buying any (new or used) gun, barrel or barreled action.

Watercam - As long as the lands are "rounded" evenly, precision of the barrel should be unaffected. (I would like to see a pic). It sounds as if the barrel may have been cleaned from the muzzle with an uncoated rod (common for the old-days style of cleaning). Please define "rounded", or do you mean "tapered" (as if worn down by a cleaning rod)?

The muzzle could be touched-up with a re-crowning cutter, or even a slight counter-sink around the lands. This would have no effect on the value of the rifle - especially since it is a shooter, and will remain so. When it comes to the value of a gun, think (used) cars. Cleaning-up the muzzle is maintenance - like fixing a small dent/scratch, or changing a broken headlight on a car. If you do end up selling it, be honest, and let the buyer know that the original barrel was removed and eventually re-installed.

Lastly, as many on Rimfire Central will attest, one simply cannot shoot-out a .22 LR barrel - unless the shooter is doing something drastically wrong. More rimfire barrels have been damaged and/or "worn-out" by improper and/or excessive cleaning than by being "shot-out". I am sure there are volumes on this subject on Rimfire Central.

I clean the chambers/barrel of my rimfires every 300 - 500 rounds (sometimes I shoot that much in a session) with a clean, dry bronze brush. I then swab the chamber with a clean, dry patch, pushing it completely out the muzzle to remove the residue. I may run the (cleaned) brush once or twice down the bore, followed by another clean patch, but rarely. If the gun is to be stored for awhile, I will run a patch with CLP through the chamber & barrel. That is all. I really have no need for bore solvent on my (non-auto) rimfire chambers & barrels.

Cleaning the actions of semi-autos is a whole different animal that goes beyond the subject-line of this particular thread.

I am also fortunate to have lived in Wyoming, Arizona & (now) Colorado, where the humidity is very low, so condensation and/or pitting are low-risk; virtually zero if I do my part.

Last edited by HalfMoA; 04-03-2016 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:31 PM
DWood47
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Well, I see I have made the same mistake that many others have made in the past. I asked a very general question...

Ok, here is what I was hoping to find. I was hoping someone had documented average group size before and after rebarreling with ammo that is known to shoot well.

I am not a benchrest shooter, I shoot silhouette. I know that this is completely different and most any barrel will be plenty accurate for the sport. The main two reasons for rebarreling a silhouette rifle seem to be to add weight to the front end of the rifle and to make the rifle shoot more consistently with a wider range of ammo. The first reason is almost enough of a reason to go ahead with a new barrel. The consistency question is more of what I would like to know about. I would be looking for accuracy that is MOA or better at 100 yards with mid grade (center X) ammo.
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWood47 View Post
Well, I see I have made the same mistake that many others have made in the past. I asked a very general question...

Ok, here is what I was hoping to find. I was hoping someone had documented average group size before and after rebarreling with ammo that is known to shoot well.

I am not a benchrest shooter, I shoot silhouette. I know that this is completely different and most any barrel will be plenty accurate for the sport. The main two reasons for rebarreling a silhouette rifle seem to be to add weight to the front end of the rifle and to make the rifle shoot more consistently with a wider range of ammo. The first reason is almost enough of a reason to go ahead with a new barrel. The consistency question is more of what I would like to know about. I would be looking for accuracy that is MOA or better at 100 yards with mid grade (center X) ammo.
I doubt that you will find anyone who will be able to accurately answer your question. My reason for saying this is because those who shoot for accuracy do not often worry about documenting what a bad barrel was doing before we rebarrel....as it is the reason we are putting a new barrel on in the first place.

Furthermore, if we have a really good lot of ammunition, you may or may not save any for future use, especially depending on the number of matches you shoot in a year.

With respect to a prior post, .22 rimfire barrels can - and do get - "shot out". This is not by your average shooter however, but rather benchrest, prone and 3-position shooters who shoot thousands of rounds each year - sometimes even monthly.

It also depends on the barrel - some have greater longevity than others. The factory barrel on my 1813 was competitive up to around 80,000 rounds. At that time, it would not hold 1.25" at 100 yards off a rest with any ammo.

The stainless steel Schneider that replaced that barrel lasted for just shy of 230,000 rounds before it was no longer competitive for smallbore prone. I tested over 15 lots of Lapua Midas and RWS R50 before making the final decision to add it to the scrap metal pile.

Some new barrels lose top flight accuracy after as little as 30,000 rounds. Again, this is for the BR and elite prone and 3-p shooters.

Before going for either a new barrel or a new rifle, you have to really do a gut check and decide what you really want. Does the current rifle fit you properly? Have you really tested for accuracy - with a reliable process? Is it glass bedded? Did you test multiple lots and brands? What is your cleaning process and frequency? Do you feel you need better balance vs what you currently have? Have you played with torque settings for your action screws?

In addition, you are starting to stretch the capabilities for "mid-range" priced ammunition for consistent MOA - and especially sub-MOA at 100 yards. Are their occasional lots of Center-X, etc. that are exceptional? Yes, but hey are not as common as hot lots for the more premium level offering such as Eley Match, Tenex, Midas +, R50, etc. The current price is painful, but if you don't test and lean towards the higher shelf stuff, you will certainly be challenged for sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards - or meters.

Regards,
Ken
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:35 PM
HalfMoA
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Well, EXCUSE Us!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWood47 View Post
Well, I see I have made the same mistake that many others have made in the past. I asked a very general question...

Ok, here is what I was hoping to find. I was hoping someone had documented average group size before and after rebarreling with ammo that is known to shoot well.

I am not a benchrest shooter, I shoot silhouette. I know that this is completely different and most any barrel will be plenty accurate for the sport. The main two reasons for rebarreling a silhouette rifle seem to be to add weight to the front end of the rifle and to make the rifle shoot more consistently with a wider range of ammo. The first reason is almost enough of a reason to go ahead with a new barrel. The consistency question is more of what I would like to know about. I would be looking for accuracy that is MOA or better at 100 yards with mid grade (center X) ammo.
Dear DWood47 -

Next time, start with what you just wrote (last, above), before asking for advice on such a broad, subjective subject. Let the forum members know, or give us an idea of what YOU want!
  1. I am a silhouette shooter.
  2. The barrel I currently have fails to meet my criteria for my silhouette rifle, barrel weight, and general ammo accuracy.
  3. I need a rifle that will shoot at least 1 MoA out to 100 yards with multiple brands of mid-grade ammunition.
  4. I expect the rifle to be able to hold its precision & accuracy for at least xxx-thousand rounds.
  5. Before changing the barrel for these reasons, I want to know what my options are (from those who have experience with silhouette rifles & shooting.
  6. I need help in building my rifle to meet MY expectations, and will make me a better shooter.
  7. Please help.
Stating what your issue is, why you have the issue, what you are thinking about doing about the issue, and asking for solutions to the issue will go far in being able to say, "Issue resolved!"

Last edited by HalfMoA; 04-03-2016 at 10:57 PM.
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