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  #16  
Old 04-12-2016, 04:34 PM
cdiver2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtS View Post
My 2 cents.

If you don't have a rifle that is straight line, I seriously doubt that you are getting your best groups free recoil. The most minute difference in bags, trigger pull etc will cause vertical movement.

I have tried "pinching" quite a bit when shooting free recoil and have never had any consistency with it.

I have only one rifle out of 9 rimfire benchrest guns that shoots best free recoil, and it has a 1 ounce Bix'n Andy trigger. No pinching, just touching.


The best method I have found on all my guns was shown to me by a friend who shoots centerfire and rimfire, and holds some national titles. He said he could never shoot free recoil. He simply lays his hand on the rifle to stabilize his trigger finger, snd shoots with no pressure. I've tried that since then and found it to be the most reliable and consistent way for me to shoot. The secret is just place you hand in a natural firing position but no grip and no pressure.

I have also found that, for me, it is critical that neither my shoulder or nor my cheek touch the stock. Letting my cheek simply touch the stock seems to move the shot 1/2" or so with most of my guns.

Quote:
He simply lays his hand on the rifle
I don't understand this just where doe's he put his hand?
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  #17  
Old 04-12-2016, 05:04 PM
drknite

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I shoot like is described above. Thumb on top, hand lightly wrapped around to pull trigger.
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  #18  
Old 04-12-2016, 08:47 PM
dlgunn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill View Post
For my 1913, free recoil, for sure. I notice you have a rear bag with leather ears. That will alter characteristics of free recoil. Can you try some Teflon tape for the bottom of the stock where it contacts the rest?
I did not do enough research before buying my bag. I use a used dryer sheet between the rifle and bag. I thought about buying some tape but was not sure if when removing it would damage the finish. Where do you get the Teflon tape? Any other options?
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2016, 09:57 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlgunn1 View Post
I was thinking of building something like that. Do you have any plans and could you describe exactly what you have done here? I do not know if they would let me stay in my class with that mod. I will have to check. I would love to find a used stock to put the 54 in.

I also have this rifle.



But i am not ready to jump to the unlimited class. Those guys have to much time and money for me to compete.

I have problems with conditions as well. I hate it when i correct for the wind and it hits POA. I have had days where i just shot for the X because nothing else seemed to work.
dlgunn,

sorry I don't have plans for bag rider and I no longer have the stock to give measurements.

I took 1/2" x 3/4" aluminum bar stock and attached it to a home made 5/8" thick butt plate. I shaped the plate so it would align the bar with the forearm of the stock. the front plate is made by M.Werks.

If it were me I would be shooting the unlimited setup as it will help develop better shooting habits (eliminates or minimizes one element, tracking) having the rifle return back to the same spot on the rest will help greatly. ii does make a difference.
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  #20  
Old 04-13-2016, 07:30 AM
2500X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linekin View Post
I shoot both all my br guns free recoil, with the exception of 1. I appy slight pressure to the butt with it. You'll have to experiment with yours to determine what works best.
A couple things I noticed about your setup... turn your rear bag around ! Wasn't explained why to me but was told that early on. I think it has to do with less friction.??
The other thing you should consider is moving the forend spacer back or shortening it so you can play around with the rifles balance in the bags. One setting doesn't work on all my guns, especially my sporter.
And if you're really serious with this br stuff you might consider a BR stock.
All this is assuming that you're shooting over wind flags ofcourse. If not then get you some of them too.
Good luck with everything!
Keith
Free recoil is the most consistent and best way to shoot a rimfire BR rifle. There is no problem with the pictured set-up. I have always shot free-recoil with the rear bag set-up as in the picture. I was successful with that set-up and actually like the additional contact as it helps keep the rifle in line on recoil. If there is a problem with him shooting free recoil it may be due the fact that he is not using a real BR stock and is using all the add-ons to try to make it shoot like a real BR stock. I'm not sure,as I've never shot that type of set-up, but I never had a problem shooting free-recoil with a purpose-built custom BR rifle.

Joey (Drknite), shoot that Turbo FREE RECOIL. That is how it is set-up and (trust me) that is how you will shoot most consistently. It may take a learning curve and may not feel "right" at first, but that is the best way to shoot it. To shoot well free recoil, your bench set-up has to be good and consistent - but that is part of the basics of this sport. Also, do NOT TRIGGER PINCH, with free recoil. The rifle recoils back into your thumb which restricts its free movement. Get a bag or a folded towel to put under your shooting hand as it rests on the bench and just pull straight back as if trying to pull the rifle straight back from the front rest. Use just the very tip of your finger.

Trust me. I've tried it all ways, and while there are some factory sporters with very rounded forends that might benefit or need to be held, every custom BR rifle I have shot/tested etc have all shot BEST free recoil. I can't state this strongly enough. If you want to consistently shoot well, that is how it is done.

ps Keith, if you are putting even the slightest pressure on the back of your rifle, you are not shooting free-recoil. The rifle has to freely move for the length of time while the bullet is in the barrel. If there is any pressure or contact with the stock at the time the trigger is pulled, it is not free-recoil.

Last edited by 2500X; 04-13-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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  #21  
Old 04-13-2016, 08:11 AM
drknite

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Yes sir. I am definitely in the learning curve real close to the beginning. I believe that the problem is in my set up possibly the front to rear rest alignment. I think that is why I am having problems getting rifle to recoil and track consistently.
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2016, 08:28 AM
dlgunn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
dlgunn,

sorry I don't have plans for bag rider and I no longer have the stock to give measurements.

I took 1/2" x 3/4" aluminum bar stock and attached it to a home made 5/8" thick butt plate. I shaped the plate so it would align the bar with the forearm of the stock. the front plate is made by M.Werks.

If it were me I would be shooting the unlimited setup as it will help develop better shooting habits (eliminates or minimizes one element, tracking) having the rifle return back to the same spot on the rest will help greatly. ii does make a difference.
Thanks for the post. About what size bolt held the bar to the butt plate? I can draw one out and get one of my customers to make me one.

Shooting the custom rifle in a match is not an option right now. I would have to go up a class. I can not compete with those guys. They shoot close to perfect and perfect cards. 50 shots and 50 Xs. I do not have the money or time to shoot that class. They buy cases of ammo and spend countless hour checking it. I only bought the custom rifle because the guy really wanted to get rid of it and the price was right.

I am winning a few in my class and always placing in the top 3. Just looking to be a little more consistent. I know ammo is part of my problem.

Thanks
Danny
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2016, 08:31 AM
dlgunn1
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Thanks for all of the posts. There is a wealth of knowledge here. I am going to work on the bag rider if they will let me use in my class. I will work on my trigger pull as well.

Keep them coming.
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2016, 09:11 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlgunn1 View Post
Thanks for the post. About what size bolt held the bar to the butt plate? I can draw one out and get one of my customers to make me one.

Shooting the custom rifle in a match is not an option right now. I would have to go up a class. I can not compete with those guys. They shoot close to perfect and perfect cards. 50 shots and 50 Xs. I do not have the money or time to shoot that class. They buy cases of ammo and spend countless hour checking it. I only bought the custom rifle because the guy really wanted to get rid of it and the price was right.

I am winning a few in my class and always placing in the top 3. Just looking to be a little more consistent. I know ammo is part of my problem.

Thanks
Danny
dlgunn,

I used a 5/16 bolt if I am not mistaken.

I understand about ammo and cost. sounds like you have a good plan on making improvements.
someone suggested using a rest for your trigger hand. I use a block of wood with a cushion top to rest my hand on, it also helps to relax your arm and shoulder. the rest is just at the right height so all I have to do is stick my finger inside the trigger guard and place it on the trigger. another benefit is that I know right away if my hand is not in the same position, which would also throw off my finger placement on the trigger. as you said anything to make it more consistent.
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2016, 09:15 AM
dlgunn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
dlgunn,

I used a 5/16 bolt if I am not mistaken.

I understand about ammo and cost. sounds like you have a good plan on making improvements.
someone suggested using a rest for your trigger hand. I use a block of wood with a cushion top to rest my hand on, it also helps to relax your arm and shoulder. the rest is just at the right height so all I have to do is stick my finger inside the trigger guard and place it on the trigger. another benefit is that I know right away if my hand is not in the same position, which would also throw off my finger placement on the trigger. as you said anything to make it more consistent.
Yes, i need to come up with a rest for my trigger hand. I am going to work on that this weekend. Thanks again for reminding me of tha suggestion.

Thanks
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2016, 12:30 PM
2500X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drknite View Post
Yes sir. I am definitely in the learning curve real close to the beginning. I believe that the problem is in my set up possibly the front to rear rest alignment. I think that is why I am having problems getting rifle to recoil and track consistently.
Yes, the vast majority of the time that free-recoil doesn't work, it means there is a problem with the set-up. Something is keeping it from recoiling consistently. See my private email to you and keep at it until you get it to work right for you. Once you do, you should see major improvement with your scores, both in top scores achieved and in the consistency of your scores.

When folks say, "My benchrest rifle shoots best when I hold it." That just tells me there is a problem either with the rifle's bedding (which there isn't in your case Joey) or there is a problem with the rest set-up. Now, sporters with narrow forends that tend to roll upon recoil, they will do best when held. Some like a death grip and some will like to be gently guided. When I shot my factory Cooper Classic Sporter, in my early competitive efforts, it liked to be gently guided.

Last edited by 2500X; 04-13-2016 at 05:17 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-13-2016, 03:14 PM
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Something that I think helped my bench discipline and keeping things consistent from shot-to-shot was taking some videos of myself while shooting targets. I caught myself doing a few things that I hadn't noticed otherwise.
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2016, 03:34 PM
cdiver2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500X View Post
Free recoil is the most consistent and best way to shoot a rimfire BR rifle. There is no problem with the pictured set-up. I have always shot free-recoil with the rear bag set-up as in the picture. I was successful with that set-up and actually like the additional contact as it helps keep the rifle in line on recoil. If there is a problem with him shooting free recoil it may be due the fact that he is not using a real BR stock and is using all the add-ons to try to make it shoot like a real BR stock. I'm not sure,as I've never shot that type of set-up, but I never had a problem shooting free-recoil with a purpose-built custom BR rifle.

Joey (Drknite), shoot that Turbo FREE RECOIL. That is how it is set-up and (trust me) that is how you will shoot most consistently. It may take a learning curve and may not feel "right" at first, but that is the best way to shoot it. To shoot well free recoil, your bench set-up has to be good and consistent - but that is part of the basics of this sport. Also, do NOT TRIGGER PINCH, with free recoil. The rifle recoils back into your thumb which restricts its free movement. Get a bag or a folded towel to put under your shooting hand as it rests on the bench and just pull straight back as if trying to pull the rifle straight back from the front rest. Use just the very tip of your finger.

Trust me. I've tried it all ways, and while there are some factory sporters with very rounded forends that might benefit or need to be held, every custom BR rifle I have shot/tested etc have all shot BEST free recoil. I can't state this strongly enough. If you want to consistently shoot well, that is how it is done.

ps Keith, if you are putting even the slightest pressure on the back of your rifle, you are not shooting free-recoil. The rifle has to freely move for the length of time while the bullet is in the barrel. If there is any pressure or contact with the stock at the time the trigger is pulled, it is not free-recoil.
Agree with most of what you said except resting the trigger hand. When I started free recoil some old timers (all excellent shots) showed me just what touching the bench can do. Whilst looking through my 42x scope one of them gave the concrete bench a slight tap from the other side the sight moved from a x to 10 and back. Later whiles shooting on a different range with wood benches it was pointed out to me that the front side of the bench was touching a post supporting the roof. My mentor went and hit the next post down and I could again see the movement in the scope.
Pinch as opposed to push, not sure on that I have done both but not made up my mind yet.
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  #29  
Old 04-13-2016, 04:56 PM
2500X
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When I say rest my hand on a bag on the bench, I mean rest; not tap or bang or shake it. Once comfortably rested, the only movement is the trigger finger. There is no way that doing what I do imparts any vibration to the bench. Just keep your friends from banging your bench while you're shooting. Pinch vs. pull - I am sure; pull - yes, pinch - no. Push??? Then you're going in the wrong direction.

Last edited by 2500X; 04-13-2016 at 05:17 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-13-2016, 05:29 PM
cdiver2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500X View Post
When I say rest my hand on a bag on the bench, I mean rest; not tap or bang or shake it. Once comfortably rested, the only movement is the trigger finger. There is no way that doing what I do imparts any vibration to the bench. Just keep your friends from banging your bench while you're shooting. Pinch vs. pull - I am sure; pull - yes, pinch - no. Push??? Then you're going in the wrong direction.

To each his own
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