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Old 04-13-2004, 12:50 AM
tony stark

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smallbore prone shooting



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I just bought a couple of small bore rifles. I tried shooting them off of the bench and they both grouped well inside the ten ring of the NRA 50 yard target.
When I tried shooting the rifle prone with a sling, inspite of a good steady hold and trigger release, the rounds impacted the target well off the point of aim.
I shoot a high-power rifle without problems. It appears that there is a whole lot about smallbore that is not appearent.
Any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2004, 01:45 AM
Fumbler

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Maybe the forearms are flexing with the pressure from your sling.
Smallbore stocks are usually more flexible than centerfires.
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Old 04-13-2004, 05:40 AM
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That is not a big deal. Could be caused by a bunch of things. Make sure you have a good natural point of aim and are not 'muscling' the rifle, and adjust your sights for the position you are shooting. I shot smallbore for many years, and almost never fired my rifle from the bench...so I don't really know if it shot to the same point of aim or not.
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  #4  
Old 04-13-2004, 09:07 AM
Robbo

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Could it be that off the bench the rifle is in "free" recoil? What I mean is when you bench rested it, the forearm was laying on the rest, not held down by by your hand or a sling, also the stock might not have been as tight to your shoulder to as when you are in position.

Other possibilities are the action screws, and/or the sight screws are loose. Are you shooting iron sights or optics?
If your groups are good off the bench, it's just a matter of moving the point of impact for your position shooting.

Where were the shots going going when you were shooting in the prone position? Were they low?
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Old 04-13-2004, 05:56 PM
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It is common to have a different zero on the bench than in the real world.

If you intend to learn to be a rifleman and shoot the positions forget about the bench. You have no need for it as long as you know how to use a sling.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2004, 01:30 AM
tony stark

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I am shooting a feinwerkbau rifle with an aluminum stock. I can check the forend for flexing but, I don't think so.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2004, 01:35 AM
tony stark

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It wasn't that the rifle was not shooting to the same point of aim. I went from shooting a good group to impacting all over the target. It's like there is something going on after the shot is fired.
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Old 04-14-2004, 01:41 AM
tony stark

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I'm shooting iron sights. The trouble is I wasn't getting anything that i would call a group. Maybe 8 ring to 8 ring. I have a good sight picture and am practicing the fundamentals, something else is happening that I don't understand. I will check the action and sight screws!
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Old 04-14-2004, 01:45 AM
tony stark

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That's what I want to do, become a REAL RIFLEMAN
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:08 AM
Cornbread2

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What kind of front sight? Post or apereture?

What type sling?

Are you an experienced prone shooter?
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  #11  
Old 04-15-2004, 12:29 AM
tony stark

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I am using a aperture sight. The iris is adjustable but I guess the aperture is about 3.8 millimeter. I have been using a Gehmann sling. When I shoot a high power rifle in the prone position I shoot well into the master class in prone.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2004, 11:33 AM
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tony, congrats on a great rifle! the feinwerkbau is a wonderful machine. i shoot the anschutz in an alminumstock and love it.

now, down to basics....

first, double-check the torque on the action mounting screws and make sure the action/bbl. is centered in the stock. are all your stock adjustments set snugly? no vibration? are your sights mounted securely? front apeture at 3.8 sounds about correct...should be about 1-1/2 bull size.

moving on to the prone position...

relax. you are calm.
offhand should be 30-40 from horizontal.
the body should be low and the head upright.
sling mounted very high on the upper arm...off the bicep and tricep (pulse points).
sling tight enough to support the rifle's weight.
head erect.
leg drawn in a bit to raise chest/lungs slightly off the mat.
trigger arm elbow firmly on the mat.
trigger finger not dragging the wood.
top two or three buttons of shooting jacket buttoned.
buttstock tucked firmly inside the shoulder joint.
establish natural aimpoint, do not steer the rifle from the rear.
elevation of muzzle controlled by shifting hips towards target or away from target.
when moving to another vertical row of bulls, shift hips/legs sideways to re-establish natural aimpoint.
give sling 1/2 twist to flatten against back of the hand.
cheeck weld should be consistantly located and lighly pressured.
relax every muscle in your body. no stress, no strain. no unnecessary tension in the position.
relax. see the bull perfectly centered in the front sight in your mind's eye even before addressing the target.
use a blinder if you shoot one-eyed. closing one eye causes muscle tension and strain on the open eye. leave them both open.

addressing the target...

in prone, find a consistant approach to the bull that works for you.
allow sights to settle onto bull.
relax and slow muzzle down
keep breathing! slow your breathing to a very slow, shallow breaths. do NOT hold breath.
if using a 2-stage trigger, be up on that first stage and poised to release the shot.
run your focal point from rear sight to front to bull and back to the front sight.
keep the bull sharply focused. try to keep the front sight sharp, don't worry too much about the rear sight. your consistant cheek weld and consistant rifle setup will get you to your perfect head position behind the sights.

releasing the shot...

the actuall shot release should come as a surprise to you.
ok, the bull is centered and sharply in focus, the muzzle is perfectly still, you have no pulse movement in the sights or only a little pulse movement (usually detected by elevation changes seen thru the front sight), you are relaxed, your breathing is shallow and slow (no grey-out in your vision), you are up on the trigger.
you should be pulling the trugger tighter...and...
you hear a bang.
KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN AND FOCUSED ON THE FRONT SIGHT AND TARGET!
now comes the most important part...

the follow thru...

watch your muzzle recoil.
your rifle should, if you have built your position correctly and established a good natural point of aim, recoil STRAIGHT UP. there should be no side-to-side movement in the muzzle.

CALL YOUR SHOT!

was the a high/left 9?
a left 10?
a low/right 8?

before you look in that spotting scope you should already know where that bullet scored.

analyze...

what did you do right?
what did you do wrong?
was your sling correctly tensioned, equalized?
was the aimpoint on target?
did you muscle the shot?
did to try to force a bad shot?
did you rush the shot off?

i know this is a lot of crap...but all of it becomes as automatic as breathing, itself, after the process is repeated a few thousand times.

as a high power shooter, you can apply a lot of what you already know and do (i posted much of that info just for newbs). one thing i can tell you is that shot follow thru is much more critical in smallbore than it is in high power. i would suggest that you focus in that area first.

good luck and good smallbore shooting to you!
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2004, 11:53 AM
Darken Rahl

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Speaking for us newbs, thanks CampyBob! Nice to see instruction in easy to follow form.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2004, 01:07 PM
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Sorry, I misread your original post. If that Feinwerkbau rifle can't hold the ten ring, there is something wrong. Shooting master scores at the 600 yard line in highpower is tougher than shooting tens in smallbore, in my opinion. Nothing tricky about smallbore except the wind. (you weren't shooting 100 yards were you?) Maybe it is something with the rifle, but a .22 match rifle should not be that touchy unless something is loose. Sights, screws, barrel?? Something major. Maybe you know someone nearby who can loan you a rifle just to prove to yourself that you are squeezing the trigger and seeing the sights, etc. Good Luck! I'm jealous; haven't shot smallbore in years...
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2004, 02:21 AM
kooter

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did you leave your bipod on the rifle? was it loose? a rattling bipod can be all it takes to throw your shots around. what distance were you shooting
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