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  #1  
Old 02-25-2014, 07:26 AM
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Question Ejection problems International MkII



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A good friend of mine has a Martini Mk II with a Border barrel he bought used. The rifle will eject fired cases for about 40 rounds after a thorough cleaning, then fails to eject. The fired cases move approx. 1/4" out of the chamber, but no further requiring him to have to use a small tool to pull the cases the remainder of the way out. Using a Q-tip to swab the chamber eliminates the problem for about 10 rounds and them the ejection failure recurs.

The cases are not slipping through the extractor paw. The ejector has the characteristic "click" at the end of the lever stroke indicating to me the extractor is working properly.

We have taken the rifle to a local gunsmith that found a rather significant carbon ring in the chamber that he cleaned out and verified the chamber and lead were clean with a bore scope. He did not find a ring in the chamber upon inspection. This did not correct the ejection problem.

Any ideas of a cause and then a fix?

Any recommended Martini gunsmiths?
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:12 AM
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I have only limited experience with gunsmithing the Internationals, but I have quite a bit of experience with non-bolt-action single-shot .22LR rifles.

Based on the after-market barrel and the symptoms you describe, my first guess would be a too tight chamber. It is tempting for a gunsmith to willy nilly put the "tightest" and, therefore, what he thinks will be, the "most accurate" chamber in a .22 match rifle, but real issues with extraction and ejection can surface in action types that have little extraction force and/or extractor travel. The Internationals have one of the best ejectors put in a rimfire, but, in the end, it is just a spring with no where near the energy of a human hand yanking back on a bolt (Remember, you energize that spring with a simple and easy stroke of the lever).

As an aside, but to further illustrate my point, I ordered a Dakota Model 10 in .22 LR a few years ago. When I specified a "match" chamber, the Dakota people told me that was not an option, citing function issues. Since Dakota would only use a very loose SAAMI sporting chamber in the Model 10, I changed my order to a .17 HMR.

As far as what can be done, first, I would try other ammunition to see whether or not the problem persists. Assuming the problem continues, it may be tempting to attempt to polish the chamber to open it up a bit, but it is very difficult to polish a .22LR chamber without ruining it. IF the problem is a too tight chamber, your best bet would be to have a gunsmith remove the barrel, set it up properly on a lathe, and ream the chamber with a slightly larger chambering reamer.

Again, this is just a guess based on the information you provided.

Good luck,

TBR
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:34 AM
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Thanks TBR, I'm thinking a too tight chamber also.

Any good Martini 'smiths you know of?
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:43 AM
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I think I would be looking for a good rimfire riflesmith, and not necessarily a Martini guy, so, all the usual suspects. Has your friend tried different ammunition types? I have had trouble, in particular, with Wolf MT and Eley Edge in tight-chambered rifles, but very few problems with the other Eley products, FWIW.

TBR
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:47 AM
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He is shooting Lapua Center-X. I have tested it with SK Std Plus and had no problems.

Going to talk with the local gunsmith about taking the barrel off and running a match chamber reamer in. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:53 AM
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Since it has an after-market barrel already, the removal should be a breeze, and any gunsmith that can get the barrel set up properly, indicating on the existing chamber, should be able to handle the job easily.

TBR
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:57 AM
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Chamber

In the days of the MK-II the ammo of the times and what most target rifles were chambered for was Western MKII and MKIII and that chamber had a slight taper to it.

Karl Kenyon put a barrel on for me in the 60's and he called asking what ammo I was using and chambered accordingly. Try some Eley 10-X in the existing chamber and see if the problem goes away.

bjm
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:25 PM
Bill Browning
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I had a problem chambering some ammo in one of my BSAs that was correcter using Eley match. it had a very tight chamber
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianJ View Post
In the days of the MK-II the ammo of the times and what most target rifles were chambered for was Western MKII and MKIII and that chamber had a slight taper to it.

Karl Kenyon put a barrel on for me in the 60's and he called asking what ammo I was using and chambered accordingly. Try some Eley 10-X in the existing chamber and see if the problem goes away.

bjm
Brian,

but as BSA's factory was a stone's throw from the ICI ammunition factory, it could have been ICI Tenex.

BSA and ICI/Eley worked very closely together in the '50s and '60s.

Border do reportedly use a tight chamber. A friend with an Anschutz 1913-Border has difficulty in extracting un-fired rounds.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2014, 09:32 PM
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Talking

We have traveled over this road several times. There is no consensus or specific reason that will fit all cases. But take the logical road to try to systematically eliminate the problems. You will find on this forum several threads that deal with the same problem.
Start with cleaning the entire trigger housing and mechanism. Look for any burs on the ejector. Make certain that the ejector captures the spent casing. There is also a small spring that keeps the ejector pressed in the correct location. Check out the full size drawings in this thread on the Martini forum.

If you have what is called a CHAMBER IRON, use that to take any dents or burs from the chamber.

One thing I have done is clean the chamber of the barrel with Birchwood Casey's lead removing cloth. It costs about $7.00 at a gun shop and was made for cleaning out cylinders and the forcing cones of revolvers. But it works great for the lead build up in chambers of rimfires. Just cut out a patch that will go on the end of a worn brush and rotate it in the chameber till your wrist is tired. It will REMOVE the lead build up and polish the chamber.

Look through the forum for other answers.
BT
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:18 PM
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Are Border barrels marked up with identifying stamps, proof marks, logos, etc?

My no-name 28 15/16 inch barrel has a slightly tight chamber. Absolutely refuses to chamber WW Super X past about 2/3 insertion. Even rub marking around the cases. Rifling is sharp and highly defined, but not a single mark anywhere on the outside of the barrel to give a clue as to who made it. The finish is more browned than blued. Mildly curious.

Hoot
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2014, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Are Border barrels marked up with identifying stamps, proof marks, logos, etc?

My no-name 28 15/16 inch barrel has a slightly tight chamber. Absolutely refuses to chamber WW Super X past about 2/3 insertion. Even rub marking around the cases. Rifling is sharp and highly defined, but not a single mark anywhere on the outside of the barrel to give a clue as to who made it. The finish is more browned than blued. Mildly curious.

Hoot
Your next step may be to take it to a gunsmith for re-chambering or match chamber reaming.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:39 AM
draton2681
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Ditto on the chamber iron. Check a fired case for a scratch mark on the top of the case. Dry firing will cause a burr in the chamber and cause it to drag on ejection to different degrees of severity. One of my MK2's would not eject at all but the chamber iron corrected the problem.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2014, 03:56 AM
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Something else to consider is that the Lapua case is longer than an Eley case. Last year I visited the Lapau facility and while the ammunition would chamber just fine I noticed that the fired cases made opening the bolt sticky as if I was firing high pressure rounds. Additionally the fired cases all had a dark ring at the edge of the mouth of the fired case which was strange.

When I got home I took the rifle to an indoor range and with some Eley Black and Lapua I fired several rounds of each. Once again the Lapua would create a sticky bolt when opening while the Eley did not. I took fired cases and lined them up against each other and that is when I noticed that the Lapua case was slightly longer which was creating the sticky bolt and the black ring on the case mouth.

I had experienced this with R-100 that I purchased in 2006 and when RWS rebranded their line two years ago I believe most people did not notice that they shortened their case length to match Eley. If you take some older R-50 or R-100 and compare it to new RWS products or Eley you will notice the difference.

You may also want to look at the case mouth to see if when the BSA is fired whether the case mouth is being crimped by the front of the chamber. I have this with the rifle that I tested at Lapua. The condition does not affect accuracy but it is something that many shooters do not notice if they have generous factory chambers. When having a custom barrel installed the best solution is to provide the gunsmith with the type of ammunition you plan on using.

Bill
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:12 AM
Hoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidfire10ring View Post
Your next step may be to take it to a gunsmith for re-chambering or match chamber reaming.
Thanks for the advice. Actually, I'm not concerned with the chamber since it easily feeds and extracts the brands and models of ammo I normally shoot. Eley Edge, Eley Match, SK+ and Wolf ME. As luck would have it, the first ammo I tried just happened to be a nearby box of WW Super X. I mainly mentioned my barrel to see if anyone could give me insight into what barrel I have. First unmarked barrel I've ever seen in any caliber.

Hoot

Last edited by Hoot; 02-26-2014 at 08:35 AM.
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