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  #1  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:55 PM
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C-II Slide replacement not the SAME!



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I bought what was the last, or next to last slide for the C-II from the Browning Guy a couple years ago when ordering some other spare parts. It was a good price and I thought I had a little wear on the original slide, wobble side to side at the rear end.
I put the new slide on last year and used a new firing pin as well. I started getting FTFs with great rapidity. Auto Match (which I like) did pretty well, but still the fail to fires.
Well, I got to wondering if the new firing pin was just not striking hard enough. I was getting a very light hit right on the edge of the rim. So, I tore it down and lengthened the slot in the firing pin about a .001 and went back to the range. Better, but not the much. AM was about 90-95% ignition, but other Federal and Win. ammo was in the 75% range. Unacceptable.

So, back to the bench. I honed the bottom of the slide, and it felt much smoother. Then, I got curious about the shell holder slot on the slide. The new slide didn't quite look the same. The distance from the top of the slide to the (top) firing pin hole was, iirc, about .065. The distance on the original slide was about .075. SHAZAM! Now I know why I am getting the high hits on the cartridge rim. The slide may fit right on the pistol, but the firing pin is striking the rim of the case .010 higher. Thus, FTF is the result from not the length of the firing pin, but the point of impact on the rim of the case. If the primer is not well distributed in the manufacturing of the case, and fully coating the interior surface of the primer rim area, a FTF is the result.

I know of no way the slide can be altered to lower the striking point of the firing pin on the cartridge. I guess my only option is to go back to the original slide and see if somebody else (doubt it) would be willing to try my slide. I couldn't sell it without the disclaimer of the height of the firing pin being greater than the original slide. I wonder how Browning screwed up so badly .

Has anyone else run into this problem swapping new OEM slides on any of their pistols , or is just my consistent luck of the draw on getting something that should work, THAT DOESN'T!! I believe this photo illustrates my problem. The front of the cartridge is in the barrel. Notice the gap in the shell holder.. the cartridge entering the barrel lowers the cartridge in the shell holder. I thought I had a picture loaded on PB that showed the high strike. I will upload one later today if I can find which camera I used to take the pic. VH
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:20 PM
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VH, In late 1979 or early 1980 Browning made some external modifications to the C-II slide. On the early models the slide serrations extended forward to about half way through the extractor cut out. On later slides these serrations stopped behind the extractor cut out. The slide you show in the pic is from an early (pre 1980) model. What year is your frame? May not matter, just a thought. I have both early and late variations. From an examination with the slide on I cannot see any variations in dimensions of the slide. The only internal difference is that the ejector on the early model is a square wire and on the later model it is a round wire. This shouldn't affect the location of the shell on the slide face. I tried an empty case in both C-IIs and the extractor held the case tight to the top of the cut out on the face of the slide on both pistols.

I notice on the newer C-II (1982) there is a shallow milled out area on the frame and in the groove that the slide fits in. This is directly behind the slide release so that the vertical leg of the slide release fits closer to the frame in this cut out. The cut out is very shallow. I hope this description isn't too confusing. I'll check other dates to see if I can figure when Browning made this modification. Or just on the C-II I'm looking at.

I know this isn't going to help much. Just some observations in trying to figure out what issues you are having.

SO
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:31 PM
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My C-II is a 1977 by my reading of the serial numbers [655RR0511x]. I have no way of knowing when the slide was made, but I will query the Browning Guy to see if he knows of any change. The firing pin hole is definitely higher in the slide than my original. I should have measured the overall height of both slides, but i didn't think of that. The overall height of the original slide is 23.62 mm. That is from the bottom of the slide to the top of the slide absent the sight rail of course. From the top of the firing pin hole to the bottom of the sight rail cut out is 7.30 mm. The top of the firing pin hole is almost concentric with the shell holder cut out circumference. If you look at my photo or the"new" slide, you can see there is a visible gap between the top (12 o'clock position) and the top of the shell holder cut out. When the cartridge goes into battery, it drops down just a bit, which puts it further below the firing pin. I am beginning to think I am not describing everything correctly, but that is what is happening. Let me look up and upload a picture of the cartridge rim (case) and you will see how shallow the strike is.

It is a pain to tear them down because the recoil spring will come out if the slide is removed. Have you figured out a way to hold the spring in place?

When I do, I will do a slide by slide comparison. If I decide to tackle that, I will need to do it within the next couple weeks. I have rotater cuff {arthoscopic} surgery in September and that is going to put me on the walking wounded list for at least 2-3 months. Not looking forward to that.

Thanks for the thoughts. VH

The picture in my first post is the [B]original[B] slide. The replacement "slide" serrations end 21.8 mm from the face of the slide measured at the bottom. The slide in the OP photo has serrations that come within about 9 mm.s of the face of the slide. In all this back and forth I am beginning to think I may have confused the original slide from the one I bought.

Last edited by varmit hunter67; 08-23-2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: correction:
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmit hunter67 View Post
....................Have you figured out a way to hold the spring in place?
................
Haven't figured out how to keep it in place, but there's an easy way to reassemble it. Take a strip of paper and bend it into a U. As you start to work the slide onto the frame, the strip of paper should have the U right side up so it wraps around the spring with the two ends sticking up. Pinch the ends to act as a "splint" around the part of the spring that isn't kept straight by the guide rod. When the slide is on far enough that the guide rod enters the slide, pull the paper out.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2013, 11:24 AM
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new n
Quote:
Originally Posted by chim View Post
Haven't figured out how to keep it in place, but there's an easy way to reassemble it. Take a strip of paper and bend it into a U. As you start to work the slide onto the frame, the strip of paper should have the U right side up so it wraps around the spring with the two ends sticking up. Pinch the ends to act as a "splint" around the part of the spring that isn't kept straight by the guide rod. When the slide is on far enough that the guide rod enters the slide, pull the paper out.
I have used your method a time or two, but then I found that a plastic straw cut to about 3/4s to an inch long was really better. Once all is in place, use a box cutter or razor blade to split the straw and pull it out with fingers or small forceps. Really works like a charm.
Here is about the best photo I have been able to get of a cartridge with the edge of rim hits. I pulled the lead and the dropped the hammer. The second impact at about the 1 o:clock position detonated the primer.


Same photo rotated and enhanced, I hope...

Last edited by varmit hunter67; 08-24-2013 at 11:31 AM. Reason: new photo
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2013, 10:17 AM
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Hammer spings??

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. I have replacement hammer springs, but I have been reticent to install them. Does anyone think it is more of a lack of force of the firing pin failing to hit the primer rim? Do the 2 strikes on the cartridge look sufficient? The first strike, as mentioned @ 11 o:clock did not fire the primer. The second strike to the right, did.

Is it a difficult task to swap out the springs? Maybe I should give that a try.... VH
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