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  #16  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwace View Post
LOL
It isn't a myth. If you measure accuracy by the typical 2 to 6 MOA of cheap 22 lr ammo from cheap rifles you won't be bothered. If you measure 50 or 100 yard groups under .2 or .5 respectively than it is something to avoid.
Where a transonic velocity degrades accuracy (as opposed to merely increasing wind deflection) the effect would degrade accuracy in 2 to 6moa ammunition and .4 to 1 moa ammunition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwace View Post
There is a simple reason all match ammo is subsonic.
I agree, though it isn't merely velocity. If velocity were the salient trait of match ammunition, it would be difficult to explain inaccurate buy subsonic ammunition.

Here's a radical idea: match ammunition is more accurate because it is made more consistently than ammunition the marketed traits of which are low price, hollow points and high velocity for hunting and pest control.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:15 PM
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Fed. did make what I would call the fast fps match ammo that I know of.
That would be the old primer dimple Gold Medal match UM1-1000 rated @ 1140 fps
& the Match 900.
Was made in Mn, just 40 miles N of me.

Last edited by midwest swiss; 11-11-2019 at 08:18 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:29 AM
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Which concept is more likely to explain lack of accuracy with hi-v 22lr...transonic shift? or poorly made cartridges?

Use y'er eyes before chambering and you can figure that one out real easy.

Last edited by jaia; 11-12-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Use y'er eyes before chambering and you can figure that one out real easy.
Oh Oh pick me pick me! "I'll take Remington Golden Bullets for the win please Alex!"

Best Ammo EVER!
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest swiss View Post
Fed claims they do"Hunter Match"

I used some of this for extended range past 50 yards just a month or so ago and I would agree it works .
I had a some brands of ammo that were pretty good at 50 , Eley Force was one the Hunter Target was another . pushed to 75 and 80 yards and both did quite well still while others were starting spread . but at 100 the Eley fell off but the hunter still did well just over an inch . this wasn't a target rifle but a stock CZ 452 ultra lux .
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2019, 10:29 AM
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I shoot Aguilla Std Vel at 300 yards. I'm moving to 400 yards than 500 & am going to try Aquilla Intercepters which seem to stay stable thru the transonic change. Here's the ballistics which I hoe you can read
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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My best groups have come with RWS HVHP.
I know the guys down in the hunting forums like it and the CCI MiniMags.
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:57 PM
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The accuracy potential with Standard Velocity Match ammunition is so much more than the exterior of the bullet. Some examples are:

- Heel of the bullet is extremely important
- Quality of the cartridge case in terms of dimensions
- Consistency of the bullet crimp so that the firing process (bullet pull) is as uniform as possible
- Consistency of the priming material
- Consistency of the powder charge
- Quality of the lead, lubricant and powder used
- Typical match grade ammunition is made on high end equipment which receives regular maintenance and is subject to rigid quality assurance testing
- The manufacturing process is slower allowing the machines to produce consistent results instead of maximum production rates
- While I don't believe Eley transports their ammunition to the US in refrigerated containers, I believe Lapua does. Not sure about RWS

I have been shooting outdoor prone for 35 years and with the exception of the early Federal UM-1, 1000A and RWS R-100 all match ammunition is standard velocity due to its reduced wind drift. Having shot matches all over the US and in the UK I have never heard a prone shooter discuss "the transonic performance of their match ammunition." On the other hand they will be happy to tell anyone is listening distance how well their lot does when the winds pick-up at both 50 yards, 50 meters and 100 yards. As an example I have shot both Irons and Anysight matches at 100 yards where I have had to put as much as 4.5 to 5.5 minutes of windage on my sights which makes shooting good scores tricky. If I am shooting high velocity ammunition which drifts 1.5 - 2.5 minutes more than standard velocity ammunition then the entire equation gets much more complicated.

The great majority of high velocity ammunition was produced for hunting / plinking and it does the job. However, if you are seeking maximum performance in terms of group size and wind drift then standard velocity is the way to go.

Bill
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1946 View Post
Is there such an animal as "Match Quality" high velocity ammo and if so; where does it reside and who's name is on it?...........................
Federal used to have an HV "Gold Medal Match" offering [981? 988?] Was it truly match quality? Not according to any of the reviews I read of it. But it *did* come in a box with those words emblazoned boldly on the side.

Now that I think of it, when I saw it on sale it was a blowout shortly after the ammo drought was just beginning to ease. Kinda suspect that they got some of the wrong stuff into the boxes thru some sort of foul-up and needed to dump it quick before word got round...

Last edited by Skeeve; 11-13-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M52E1 View Post
The accuracy potential with Standard Velocity Match ammunition is so much more than the exterior of the bullet. Some examples are:

- Heel of the bullet is extremely important
- Quality of the cartridge case in terms of dimensions
- Consistency of the bullet crimp so that the firing process (bullet pull) is as uniform as possible
- Consistency of the priming material
- Consistency of the powder charge
- Quality of the lead, lubricant and powder used
- Typical match grade ammunition is made on high end equipment which receives regular maintenance and is subject to rigid quality assurance testing
- The manufacturing process is slower allowing the machines to produce consistent results instead of maximum production rates
- While I don't believe Eley transports their ammunition to the US in refrigerated containers, I believe Lapua does. Not sure about RWS

I have been shooting outdoor prone for 35 years and with the exception of the early Federal UM-1, 1000A and RWS R-100 all match ammunition is standard velocity due to its reduced wind drift. Having shot matches all over the US and in the UK I have never heard a prone shooter discuss "the transonic performance of their match ammunition." On the other hand they will be happy to tell anyone is listening distance how well their lot does when the winds pick-up at both 50 yards, 50 meters and 100 yards. As an example I have shot both Irons and Anysight matches at 100 yards where I have had to put as much as 4.5 to 5.5 minutes of windage on my sights which makes shooting good scores tricky. If I am shooting high velocity ammunition which drifts 1.5 - 2.5 minutes more than standard velocity ammunition then the entire equation gets much more complicated.

The great majority of high velocity ammunition was produced for hunting / plinking and it does the job. However, if you are seeking maximum performance in terms of group size and wind drift then standard velocity is the way to go.

Bill
Bill, you pretty much covered it all, way more effectively than I could.
But then I only have 8 years of experimenting with rimfire and barely 3 years of precision reloading.
Nowhere near the amount of time you've put in.
Thanks for adding the information.
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2019, 03:42 PM
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To the OP's question--last year I purchased several thousand rounds of Federal Gold Medal HV Match, #719, 40gr @ 1200fps. In the same transaction I also bought a lot of Federal Gold Medal Target and Ultramatch which I have much more experience with and both shoot fantastically well out of a 10/22, Ruger Precision, and S&W Model 41. I have not used the HV Match nearly enough to know much about it other than not being terribly impressed with the few times that I've loaded it and shot a few groups.
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  #27  
Old 11-14-2019, 09:48 PM
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Eley

Have you tried Eley Force? So far as I know I've tinkered with about everything available and this is the best so far. I've tried running it thru a Waltz Die both HP and EPS which only improve a great product. FWIW, I've never tried the bulk packed items, only the 50 rd. box configuration. It's the only HV Ammo I've used that'll put them in one hole # 50 yds. more often than not if I do my part with my Cooper JSR. My Kimbers (82 Sporter & Classic Hunter) like them also but not so much as the Cooper.
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2019, 09:51 PM
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Short answer, no.
Long answer, Heck NO!
Especially when they are bulk packed in a large box, and they get beat around in shipping. I do not waste money on that crap, and will not allow it to be fired in any firearm I own, ESPECIALLY if it is Winchester.
'Nuff said.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:21 AM
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this is the only one I know of, I don't think it's actually "match" quality though.
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  #30  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armtx View Post
My best groups have come with RWS HVHP.
I know the guys down in the hunting forums like it and the CCI MiniMags.
While no one would call them "Match" ammo, those two HV loads group the best for me.
If you can get past the annoying sticky coating on the RWS ammo, they group about as well as Mini-Mags and are less expensive, 500 round bricks are $23.95 at SG Ammo.
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