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Old 02-14-2019, 02:23 PM
jac54
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Red dot or scope



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I recently purchased a Victory and can't seem to shoot it to it's potential. My 65 year old eyes just will not focus properly on the iron sights. I have never shot a pistol with red dot or a scope. I was wondering what type of groups you can get with a dot and what would be a good scope for it.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:14 PM
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I'm in similar, if not the same, situation as you. Without correction I don't have good focus on front sight. With correction for front sight, target is so blurry as to be useless. Distance correction makes the target look good, but the sights unusable.

I've followed what the Bullseye (precision pistol) shooters recommend: red dot. I use distance correction to put the target in focus, and the red dot in the non-magnified scope "appears" to be in the same focal plane as the target. And Bullseye shooters are going for groupings within a couple inches at 50 yards offhand. So the equipment can do it. Scopes with magnification are not considered to be beneficial, although your kind of shooting may be different.

Popular in Bullseye are 1" and 30mm diameter tube type red dot sights like the Ultra Dot or the Sightron S-30.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:36 PM
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If considering 'dot sight' the dot comes in various 'moa' sizes. Afaik,none have magnification.
We had a 2x scope on a Bullseye pistol decades ago, even that low power was showing my wiggle, disconcerting that! And when I was thinking about my wigglin' I wasnt concentrating on the crosshairs on the target center.....
Fwiw, a couple of years ago (Im 66 now) I was holding my handgun with open sights out one handed and the front sight was fuzzy. Many accomplished target shooters will say that you need to concentrate on the front sight, see it well, even if the target blurs somewhat.
It struck me that my computer desk glasses were single vision set up for about arms length out focus. I retrieved them and right off shot some 30-50% smaller groups. This all took place within 1/2 hr. on my home range so conditions, gun, ammo and me were all the same, just different glasses that let me see the front sight clear (back fuzzed a little, target a bit more but groups smaller). This is still working for me.

Last edited by gcrank1; 02-15-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:41 PM
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There is no comparison between a scope and a red dot for target shooting/hunting/plinking off-hand shooting. I've shot competition for forty years, some of it major and some minor. I've been using red dots for over twenty-five years now and the only handgun I'd put a scope on would be one I'm using for load development and shooting the gun off sandbags at a bench. Red dots don't "black out" if you're not looking straight through them, there is no eye relief/focal range, and no pronounce wobble like you get with a scope. Accuracy? Superb. I used scoped .22lr handguns in team challenge in Team Challenge Matches where I had to open 3" gates at forty, forty-five, and fifty yards shooting against the clock and usually got them all opened in the alloted time. I've shot deer using red dots out to ninety yards with a handgun with no problem, and I've put handgun type red dots on a 45-70 rifle and using it off the bench I can shoot 1.3-1.7" five shot groups at a measured 114 yards (my deck to berm at camp). You are not handicapped in any way using a red dot on a handgun. FWIW, I'm seventy years old and can shoot just about as good today as I could twenty-five years ago due to using red dots on my handguns....and I could shoot pretty good back then Pardon my modesty....but you asked how well they worked.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:08 PM
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I put a red dot on my Victory and noticed a HUGE improvement on my Bullseye shooting. I bought a cheap red dot off Amazon, think it was about $40Cdn, sold under the RioRand label.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:46 PM
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I have a Victory and a pair of eyes I've been using for over 70 years and they ain't what they used to be.
For me it is very difficult using iron and/or fiber optic sights nowadays. I put a very inexpensive red dot on my Victory - one with a 2MOA dot, and found it to be extremely easy to sight with. I'm not the most steady person with a pistol anymore, but I do much better with the red dot than the factory sights. I zeroed in my red dot on a bag and it is dead nuts! My suggestion would be to try out an inexpensive red dot and see how it works for you. The cheap one that I have has been on three different pistols now and is holding up just fine. With the very mild recoil of a .22LR you can get plenty of service out of even a cheap red dot. If you like it, you can always splurge fort a more expensive one later. I've got 5 inexpensive red dots of various makes and have only had one go bad on me, but for under $30 I can live with that.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:51 PM
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I wiggle too much for free hand shooting with magnification. For me, a red dot sight with a 2 MOA dot works well. I use the Ultradot MatchDot and MatchDot II.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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I have used red dots on various target guns for the last 25 years or so but in the past few years I have to use an aperture device on my glasses to get a clear dot image. I use the basic Ultradots and recently added Burris Fastfire IIIs and Vortex Venoms to some of my handguns.

As to scopes the best I have ever used for shooting free handed is the discontinued Burris Gil Hebard 1X bullseye target dot scope. I can focus the scope to get a nice clear crisp highly defined dot and image and have fired some of my best targets in years using them. I just picked up my 3rd last week from a bullseye forum classified.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:07 PM
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I use a Burris Fastfire III on my Buckmark and it is better than me. if you are target shooting you will want a smaller MOA one like the 3 MOA. I have bought several of the cheap versions and they work good other than they can be frustrating to get adjusted the 1st time. If you have astigmatism in your shooting eye that is uncorrected you might see some flare around the red dot. The red dots answered all my problems but I wear my normal driving glasses to address the astigmatism in my right eye.I have the same problems with iron sights mentioned above in the previous posts with my now old eyes. Mine shoots lights out , better than I have ever shot a pistol before. I like it so well I have put several of them on various pistols. No regrets-none.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:26 PM
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I started using red dot sights 30 years ago. I was the first in our league to do it and many followed my lead. It makes finding the bull much easier and eliminates the shake of a powered scope.

I can shoot iron sights pretty well but now that I'm use to the red dot they are a big improvement.

You will have to get use to it. Some people have initial problems finding the dot but if you spend time you will get it with minimum problems.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vet6771 View Post
I've got 5 inexpensive red dots of various makes and have only had one go bad on me, but for under $30 I can live with that.
Can I ask which inexpensive red dot is your favorite?
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:31 AM
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wproct View Post
Can I ask which inexpensive red dot is your favorite?
I have several types of inexpensive (cheap) red dots. The one I like on the pistols I believe is a Field Sport RD-D002RG. I say "believe" because I haven't got the box anymore, but I went through my historical Amazon orders and through the process of elimination that was the only sight that I ordered that I don't have a box for. I like that one because of its size for a pistol, and its small dot - it also has a cover for the lens. I have another one that is virtually the same physically, but it is the only one that has failed - it is a Pinty HRG-000--BK. I also have a couple of Dagger Defense DDHB red dots which I like, but I feel are a little big for a pistol but I like better on a rifle. All of the aforementioned sights are the open rectangular lens type sights. I have a couple of "tube" type red dots which are OTW Red Dots X001MI2617 which I like for rifles also. Have one on an AR and like it, as well as the Dagger Defense on an AR. You asked a very simple and straightforward question and got a long answer, but the reality is I like different sights on different firearms for the reasons I stated. Except for the Pinty, all have functioned well and the Dagger Defense and OTW have held up on an AR15 5.56, they also have lens covers. I have had the Field Sport the longest and I really like it on the SW Victory. I don't know if that will help you or not.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:58 PM
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Thank you very much for taking the time to write this out. I will go out on Amazon and try to compare them. Thanks again!
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wproct View Post
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this out. I will go out on Amazon and try to compare them. Thanks again!
No problem - I hope it helps in your search.
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