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Old 01-06-2019, 08:46 AM
RMS65
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Debating spending money on another 17HMR



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I've had some difficulty with 17hmr particularly Savages' B17. I bought 1 and was given 1 as a gift. Savage destroyed and replaced both rifles. One of the replacements was terrible. I wasted so much time and money trying to get it to shoot better than 1.5 - 2 MOA I gave up and cut it in half. The gifted one I'm having a little better luck with but still not super impressed and have to keep because it was a gift.
Any how I'm not sure how my of my frustration is due to ammo quality and or gun quality. I love the caliber if it would only shoot 1 MOA reliably. Meaning concentric groups without flyers. It seems that I get a disproportionate amount of fliers with 17hmr. There always seems to be 1 sometimes 2 fliers that open up an otherwise great group to 3/4" or more @ 50yds. Not sure if I'm expecting too much from this cartridge.
I'm currently eyeballing the Tikka 17hmr since I've got a few of their centerfire-rifles that are good shooters. At the same time hesitant to spend more money on a caliber that's been the source of aggravation. I would appreciate any feedback on my dilemma.
Thank you
Ron

Last edited by RMS65; 01-06-2019 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:53 AM
NoSecondBest
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You're at the mercy of your gun, choice of ammo, and the lot the ammo came out of. Rimfires fail in this area at times. My CZ455 will mostly shoot around 1moa at a hundred yards. Sometimes better on a good day. Changing to a different lot of ammo can make that accuracy level go right out the window. If you find something that shoots well, buy a bunch of it at that time. That all being said, even with less than stellar lots of the ammo the gun prefers, it still shoots an inch and a half at 100 yards off the bench. Once in a while you're just going to get a flyer. Notice that no one is making 17hmr target ammo?
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:01 AM
tbates66
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Hey Ron....I have 2 great 17HMRs and convinced a friend to buy one. He didn't want to spend much on an experiment so he bought a Savage (don't recall the model) for $269. After trying every different configuration of ammo he could find, scrubbing the filthy barrel numerous times (It came from the factory really filled with metal filings), and putting a good scope on it, he could still do no better than about 1.5" groups at 100 yards, but usually bigger groups He eventually concluded that you can't polish a turd, so it sits in his closet. I have an Anschutz 1517MPR and a Sako FinnFireII, neither one cheap and both wicked accurate....usually under 1" at 100. Though not always, ammo being what it is. I had a Ruger 77/17, but when it heated up the groups grew to 3", so I got rid of it.
Now here's my question...Is it really worth it to suffer the aggravation of buying a dud and trying to make it something it isn't. And do you really save lots of money when you buy and shoot lots of different ammo, change scopes, upgrade triggers, change stocks, glass bed the barrel channel and all the other accurizing tricks? Or are you better off buying a well made rifle in the first place? Only you can answer this for yourself. I say absolutely you should buy the Tikka. I have my eye on a Cooper. Can't have too many rifles. Let us know what you decide! Tom
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMS65 View Post
I would appreciate any feedback on my dilemma.
Thank you
Ron
Hi Ron,

I have several 17HMRs and you might find this group of anecdotal evidence to be useful. These are 5 shot @ 100y group sizes that have repeated 2-3x in a row in DEAD calm conditions with suitable scopes for the task.
1) Anschutz 1517D: 1"
2) Anschutz 1517 MPR: 5/8"
3) Sako Quad with Lilja barrel: 5/8"
4) Savage 93R17 heavy barrel: 1"

Most of them prefer the TNT ammo. CCI or Federal brand has not mattered. If you're not testing that, you should.


Related question: what scope do you use and how are you eliminating parallax?
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:40 PM
NoSecondBest
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There are lots of better made guns than the Savage. You can get a really accurate bolt gun for under five-hundred bucks like the CZ, or you can pay a thousand more and get an Anschutz, etc. You need to decide what fits the budget. I have some really expensive guns myself, but I can't honestly say that they are worth the extra money over the CZ. The only reason I'm mentioning the CZ, is that it's just a tad over the cost of the Savage and twice the gun. FWIW, I've owned lots of Savages and was mostly happy with them until the last ten years or so. They've made cutting corners an art form.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:54 PM
RMS65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgeesaman View Post

Most of them prefer the TNT ammo. CCI or Federal brand has not mattered. If you're not testing that, you should.


Related question: what scope do you use and how are you eliminating parallax?
Thanks all for the responses. I have found that whatever turd I was polishing, they all printed the TNT rounds (Fed or CCI) the best. I have tried several different lots of all CCI manufactured rounds in all rifles before condemning the rifle itself.

As far as scopes go I have used
Nikon rimfire II at the specified 50yd to eliminate parallax error.
Nikon 3-9x40 EFR (AO).
Hawke Vantage 4-12x40 AO.
Nikon Prostaff 5 3.5-14x40 Side Focus.

I'm fairly conscientious of parralex and other scope mounting pitfalls. I'm also experienced enough to shoot sub MOA with my box stock centerfire-rifles and @ times with Weirauche break barrel springers.

I've also considered higher end rifles ( >$1k) but again my faith in the 17hmr is wavering too much to dump that much money into it. I'm thinking I might gamble $500 for a Tikka or if I ever see one a Cz457 American.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:10 PM
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Over the past 10 years, I have had (4) different 17 HMRís and they all shot reasonably well with CCI manufactured ammo. Reasonably well being a 5 shot group with 3-4 well placed rounds but more than likely at least 1-2 flyers. All certainly good enough for hunting requirements, but not if one is attempting a ragged hole group @ 100 yards. Over the past couple years I did a lot of testing with a chronograph on multiple types of CCI ammo ( CCI, Hornady, & Federal with different 17 & 20 grain bullets. When you get an extreme spread of 400 fps from the same box of ammo one will certainly not get consistant groups. Donít even get me started on the 10-30% split case necks from all but one of those tested ammo types.

I currently have two 17 HMRís - one is a CZ 453 Varmint SST the other a Styer Zephyr II and I will continue to use them for hunting however, I think I am done adding any more 17 HMRís until CCI puts some better consistancy & quality control into their product.

I am adding another 17 caliber rifle to my collection, but it is a CZ 527 in 17 Hornet. .
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:57 PM
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I only have one 17 HMR and it's the Anschutz 17 LP. At first I was disappointed with it but after a few hundred rounds it started shooting a lot better. Including the 17 HMR I have 5 Anschutz, a 1712 Silhouette, 1710 XLR, 1813 Supermatch and a 10" Exemplar. So...I'd have to recommend "drumroll please"...the Anschutz.

While mine isn't as accurate as dgeesaman it does make me happy.



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Old 01-06-2019, 02:39 PM
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There are some really nice and very fancy 17 HMR's out there and you can spend nearly as much as you'd like, but, you can't spend your way out of ammo that is sometimes, even often, very inconsistent.

It's truly unfortunate, the manufacturers don't care enough to put better quality control into the ammo they are making for us consumers because this stuff is consumer grade at best. I've run a bunch of this stuff across a chronograph and there isn't anyone that is making 17 HMR ammo that doesn't have crazy high extreme spreads. I've had some of this stuff have well over 150fps swings from the same box of 50. In all honesty, I'm actually surprised these things shoot as well as they do. That's not to say some of these guns don't have issues, because the certainly do, but be careful in thinking you can spend your way out of sub par ammo, because even the finest made 17 HMR can't magically make up for crappy ammo.

To the OP, maybe try loosening the actions screws then re-torque them to 15-18 in.lbs try and use a in.lb torque wrench because you'll be amazed at how little 15-18 in.lbs really is. Often, these things come from the factory gorilla tight and that can throw off accuracy quite a bit so I'd start by checking that first.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:12 PM
RMS65
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To the OP, maybe try loosening the actions screws then re-torque them to 15-18 in.lbs try and use a in.lb torque wrench because you'll be amazed at how little 15-18 in.lbs really is. Often, these things come from the factory gorilla tight and that can throw off accuracy quite a bit so I'd start by checking that first.
I've tried all 4 of these rifles with different tupperware and laminate stock configurations. Swapping stocks, barrel channels and trying various small increments of torque between 15 and 25 inch pounds. Even tried preloading the barrel slightly with pressure pads.
Anytime I thought I was onto something it evaporated after a group or two and I was back to basically 2 MOA. Always 1 out of 5 shots falls way out of the group. Also some rifles were terrible and poi would shift 2 inches between different types of ammo @ 50yds. Possibly acceptable @ 100yds but not @ 50yds. Sorry to be a downer but the round has so much potential and it's a shame that we can't get quality ammo
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:36 PM
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I have two Savages, a 93 BVSS and an A17 Target Thumbhole. They both shoot sun MOA @ 100 yards consistently.

A friend of mine just bought the Tika, it's shooting 1/2" groups all day long with CCI TNT ammo.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:18 PM
RMS65
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I have two Savages, a 93 BVSS and an A17 Target Thumbhole. They both shoot sun MOA @ 100 yards consistently.

A friend of mine just bought the Tika, it's shooting 1/2" groups all day long with CCI TNT ammo.
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you have had better luck with Savage than me.
1/2" groups for the Tikka @ what distance?
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:16 PM
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RMS65, not sure what you're looking for or how much you want to spend but I just saw a really nice Volquartsen SS Deluxe for sale on another forum. I think he was "asking" $950 and said it had less than 100 rnds through it. If you're interested I'd be happy to send you the link.
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:49 PM
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I wish someone would mfr reasonably priced 22 hornet. I can reload them cheap.
I was at a car swap meet and a guy sold me a dill pickle jar, a large one, full of brass for $5. I have a 10" contender that shoots great.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:46 PM
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Debate usually involves more than one person, and more than one opinion.

Like the cartoon, with the little devil on one shoulder and the little angel on the other.

So since everyone else is the little devil. ....

Youíve already had poor luck with this caliber. Ammo is expensive and not a lot of choices. Why do need it? Are you hunting ? Have you tried 22 magnum?

Itís not a target round. 22lr Lapua Midas shoots real good for the same price.

Maybe a bigger caliber , like 223 or 6.55, or a true varmint round like 22 hornet or 17 hornet. Would do the job.

Believe me I know the pull. But every time I look at one I just come here , see all the misery , and stopmyself.
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